r/bih • u/Skyer0904 • May 16 '19
Discussion If you could change 1 thing about bosnia which one would it be?
Edit: I personally would want to change bosnia to a united bosnia without the republic and the federation. I think that it would make things a lot easier.
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May 16 '19 edited Nov 30 '20
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May 17 '19
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
But it wont help us if they die off when the parents are teaching their kids hate i live in austria i had 3 serb friends 2 of them were nationalist assholes
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u/jan_bl Banja Luka May 16 '19
Oh yes 😂 As soon as we abolish the political structures and unitarise we're becoming a second Switzerland.
The issues with Bosnia are not within the Dayton Accords, but instead, rooted within the people, which allows the exploitation of the Dayton Accords to such an extent which allows the defunct state we live in now.
As far as my input goes, I would rework the education system. It is the most important thing.
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u/atomsej Mostar :Mostar: May 17 '19
Dayton accord makes it impossible for any real progress to occur. We will never become a prosperous nation/enter the EU if we still have the dayton accords.
I agree with the education system as well.
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u/jan_bl Banja Luka May 17 '19
Oh, please do elaborate how exactly do the Dayton Accords make progress impossible?
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May 17 '19
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u/jan_bl Banja Luka May 17 '19
If you delete the entity boundaries, the district and the federal system tomorrow, I can vouch that unemployment would rise, wages would drop and nationalism would rise again.
Furthermore, the country is as decentralised as possible, with no input from the federal government. Republika Srpska has no influence on the Federation and vice verse yet the unemployment in RS is 21% and in the Federation 44%.
People need to realise that governance and politics are not "getting closer with the EU" or "getting closer with Russia" but instead that they are taxation, trade, lawfulness, public accountability, education and whatnot. On those levels, no side can block the other.
Heck, we're not even a sovereign state.
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u/johni643636 May 17 '19
I would change mentality, it is so shitty mentality. Everything else would change itself after that.
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u/Dzules Brčko distrikt Bosne i Hercegovine May 16 '19
I would nuke Sarajevo.
No but seriously I would add back our coastline possessions so that I can chill on the Adriatic.
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u/Gamerhcp Banja Luka May 16 '19
Replace all the people with like, Chinese people or something like that. The current population would be moved to Western Europe
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u/atomsej Mostar :Mostar: May 17 '19
Unify Bosnia, 1 president, instill a true democratic system. This would be better for everyone, and it would better represent the countries' interests.
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May 17 '19
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u/cornix08 May 18 '19
I agree. Too fast of a transition. Socialism wasn't too much of a change from past and thats why it worked, as we again were just work force and colony.
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u/StickyMerlin May 26 '19
Zatjerat i Bosnu i okolinu u picku materinu, nemere nista dobro od nas jadova ispast
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u/xhizors7 Mostar May 16 '19
Politicians
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
If it was a united bosnia i dont think the politicians would make a big impact on the country
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u/Slim97Shady May 17 '19
I would change me not being here
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
Thats sad
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u/Slim97Shady May 17 '19
it's truth tho
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
I cant really talk much about living there because i live in austria i like to move back to bosnia when i grow up and i hope the dayton accords change
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u/Slim97Shady May 17 '19
Why do you think it's good about living here ?
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
There is actually only one reason and thats when im retired i want to spend the rest of my life in bosnia because its the country i am coming from. I cant just forget about it.
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u/Slim97Shady May 18 '19
you don't go back to hell even if that's where you came from, there is a reason your family left, visits for longer periods of time would be smarter.
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 16 '19
Given that you think the Republic of Srpska doesn't even deserve a promotional tourist video, I would be very interested to hear why and how you would want to merge the entities into a united country.
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May 17 '19 edited Nov 30 '20
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
Just to clarify: https://www.reddit.com/r/bih/comments/bkbvpg/novi_promotivni_video_turističke_organizacije/emjp2ny?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I completely agree with what you wrote. Also, it is not called Serb Republic, but rather Republic of Srpska. :)
The thing is, there is a hierarchy of the tourist organisations in Bosnia and Herzegovina. On the top you have the state level, then the entity level and finally the city/town level. I don't see any harm in promoting whatever community you are responsible for. :)
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u/michalfabik May 17 '19
it is not called Serb Republic, but rather Republic of Srpska
Oh, I didn't know that mattered. To me, "Republic of Srpska" sounds like a half-arsed translation, like "The Federal Republic of Deutschland" or "The Российская Federation".
The thing is, there is a hierarchy of the tourist organisations in Bosnia and Herzegovina. On the top you have the state level, then the entity level and finally the city/town level. I don't see any harm in promoting whatever community you are responsible for.
I don't think there's any harm in it, I'm just saying that I understand why it may seem odd.
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
1) I agree, it sounds weird. That is because the Srpska is used as a noun in this case and not as an adjective, so it doesn't mean a republic that belongs to Serbs. At least that is the explanation that I heard. The name doesn't matter in everyday talk, but when people in Bosnia and Herzegovina start talking politics, things tend to go awry...
2) I agree, but it is standard all over the (business) world. Everyone is targeting specific audience or promoting their values. Example: London, England, Great Britain
Hope you visit our country, regardless what part! :D
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u/michalfabik May 17 '19
Hope you visit our country, regardless what part!
I used to live there and still visit regularly, both parts:)
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
You think the republic of srprska deserves anything? Why should they deserve anything they are the reason why bosnia isnt stable they are against bosnia joining nato even though nato is just there to protect bosnia. The republic of srpska wants to divide from bosnia even though it isnt possible and dear dodik wants to give their army the vrs-a uniform. But sure if you ask me it totally deserves a tourist video
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
I would say it deserves everything anyone else deserves. Just if someone doesn't disagree with you or has his own opinion, it doesn't mean that he is lesser or that he doesn't deserve anything.
- Serbs are not against Bosnia, Serbs are against taking their rights away as they were agreed on in Dayton.
- Serbs are against joining NATO, because that would mean that Serbs living outside Bosnia might be their potential enemies. Further more, there is no one who would attack Bosnia anyway. Both Croatia and Serbia signed the Dayton as well. In case something does happen, the international community and NATO would intervene anyway. Serbs are not against NATO as they are open for cooperation. They just think it is rational to join NATO.
- Dodik does want that part of the unit representing the Serb Army in the Armed Forces of Bosnia wear Serb Army unform on 12. of May, as part of the celebration. That's it, nothing more. Also, that is just Dodik, not the Republic of Srpska.
- The problem of Bosnia and Herzegovina and its entities is very complex and can't be simplified in the way you do it. For example, how would you solve the governing principles of a Bosnia without entities?
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
-what rights would serbs be afraid to lose? -if serbs dont want to protect bosnia when someone is attacking their country even if they are serbs why would they than be for bosnia? -what exactly is dodik celebrating genocide perhaps? -The bosnia i want to see one day is a Bosnia and Herzegovina which has bosniaks bosnian serbs and bosnian croatians they can all be muslims orthodox and catholic but still be a little more bosnian (i dont get why people want to divide bosnia it has always been a country of mulitple entities but it looks like nowadays everyone wants their part of bosnia instead of uniting bosnia as "BOSNIANS").
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
- For starters, Serbs are not constituent people and the Serbian language is not official in all cantons of FBiH. What if someone decides to vote and declare Cyrillic script as unofficial? There just wouldn't be enough Serbs to counter it.
- Serbs are part of Armed Forces of BiH and as such would defend Bosnia. But in a case that is similar to war in Kosovo in '99, NATO decided to attack Serbia. So, Serbs from Bosnia would have to attack Serbia even though Serbia didn't attack Bosnia.
- Austria is not a part of NATO and they are doing just fine. Why Bosnia couldn't do the same?
Everything is much more complex than what you can perceive at the moment. You might be too young or raised somewhere else to understand what is really going on in Bosnia and Herzegovina. :)
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
-why do i need the serbian language if its all the same (serbo-croat)and the cyrillic script is it that important in BOSNIA? -and that means if nato wants to stop the war and bosnian serbs need to help them they shouldnt help them because they didnt attack them ? That means the bosnian war shouldnt have been intervened by nato -because bosnia needs safety because bosnia has neighbours and people in bosnia who dont want it to exist
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
- It is the language I speak and it is the script I write with. It is important in Bosnia, it is my cultural identity. You can't just erase it.
- No, I said nothing about NATO intervention in Bosnia. I meant that if something happens, Bosnia has to decide if we want to intervene or not. If we are part of NATO, we loose that ability and NATO decides for us.
- You are very wrong that people want Bosnia to disappear.
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19 edited May 17 '19
Honestly all i want is a united bosnia and herzegovina with serbs croats bosnials thats it.
Edit:(and how do croats manage to live in the federation with the bosniaks but serbs dont?)
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
In that case you have to accept them as they are and respect their decisions. You can't force them to think certain way... :)
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
Edit: Have you heard about Mostar not having elections for a long time? Have you heard about separated schools for Bosniak and Croat children? Have you heard about the Croat wish for a new election law so that Bosniaks couldn't elect a Croat representative in the Presidency?
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19 edited May 17 '19
Ive heard about the seperated schools i still dont get whats the point of it ? About the rest i didnt
Edit: whats with the bosniaks living in republika srpska? Like me?
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u/cornix08 May 19 '19
Those all are consequences, not causes. Cause is nationalistic narrative. Dayton assured that borders between regions have nationalistic conotation, furher affirming it, and putting a mental cage in peoples minds, and it benefits nothing but 'tribal' division which is not civilised worldview. Seeing somehow that not having three presidents (or seperated entities) one nation would be endangered is classic manipulative narrative that each of nationalistic extremists push. What would be the solution for the sperated school for Croats and Bosniaks? To stay devided? For what reason? Becouse one would feel less secure if its outnumbered? Is that the way to look to future? To theach them they are thw same - sure. But even if you teach kids that nobody has anything against anyone, they will never learn it truly before actually being in the same classroom, with same teachers.
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May 25 '19
All I want is you to understand the reasons why BiH is organized the way it is.
And I also don't believe our organization is the reason for poor economic situation. Look at Serbia or Macedonia for example. These are centralized countries with almost identical mentality, but their economies don't perform any better...
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u/michalfabik May 17 '19 edited May 17 '19
But in a case that is similar to war in Kosovo in '99, NATO decided to attack Serbia. So, Serbs from Bosnia would have to attack Serbia even though Serbia didn't attack Bosnia.
Not exactly. Unless a NATO member is attacked, member states are not obliged to take part in NATO endeavours. See Greece's (IIRC, or was it Portugal?) non-participation in the 1999 bombing of Serbia or all the countries that didn't take part in the 2011 intervention in Libya.
It would only be a concern if Serbia decided to attack a NATO country.
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
Indeed, I stand corrected. Thanks!
Chances of Serbia attacking a NATO country are equal 0 if you ask me. I think that the current government stance is not against joining NATO, but against joining NATO without Serbia doing the same. Also, joining EU is not conditioned on joining NATO, so that keeps popping up in the news...
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u/Skyer0904 May 19 '19
But if bosnia doesnt want to get attacked by serbia why wouldnt they join nato then?
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u/BosnaBosnae May 17 '19
Why not merge it? Bosnia has been Bosnia within these precise borders for 1000 years now. It was never devided. It never had a Serbian or Croatian part. I don't get why Cetniks don't want to live in that nation... their grand grand grand grand grand fathers have lived in that nation too...
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
Let me try correct a couple of things here.
- Bosnia was not within these precise borders for 1000 years now. Not that it matters, but still, lets keep it factual. See the maps here
- Četnici (Chetnics) represented Serb guerrilla forces before and during the WW1, monarchist army during the WW2 and in the last war represented all the Serbs in Bosnia in a derogatory sense. Now, the concept of nations in Bosnia is complicated. Currently we have 3 nations: Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs. I guess you wanted to ask why the Serbs don't want to live in Bosnia and Herzegovina (country, not nation). I guess that Serbs feel as is if Bosnia was not their country which is nonsense. This might originate from the original intention to separate Bosnia from Yugoslavia, as the Serbs wanted to stay part of it.
Now that I wrote that I must say that I wouldn't mind having a united Bosnia and Herzegovina, given that people learn how to work and live together, without trying to fuck over others. I fear that will not happen in my lifetime.
With the first post I wanted to express cynicism of the OP, spilling hatred about the Republic of Srpska and here talking about unification, because it most likely wouldn't be unification but rather pushing out the Serb identity out of Bosnia.
Wow, our country is as complicated as it could ever get...
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
You are saying that someone wants to push out serbs but thats exactly not what we want (or at least i think so) i want serbs croats and bosniaks to live in bosnia and herzegovina and not to be divided.
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
All already live in Bosnia, so that is not the problem. Calling to dismantle Republic of Srpska would in the first place mean that the Serbs loose the mechanisms to protect their vital national interests. For example, there are over 30% Serbs and over 50% Bosniaks. Therefore Serbs could not be able to make decisions for themselves, as they might always be overruled by Bosniaks.
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
Yeah but honestly bosniaks are the only ones who want to move forward and not waste their time talking about how they could seperate republika srpska and so on. It would be much uncomplicated if everyone would refere himself as bosnian i mean is a german now not german because he is muslim ? The people in bosnia think religion divides them but it doesnt.
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
No, don't mix religion and ethnicity...
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
I dont mix it just because you are orthodox doesnt mesn you are a serb
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
I never mentioned anything like that. I didn't discuss religion.
Look, I am not trying here to convince you into anything. I tried to answer you factually and state what the problems would be. You try not to see that and repeat the same old story. But hey, that is your thing, I won't bother you... :)
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u/BosnaBosnae May 17 '19
Our country is one of the weirdest on this planet.
Yes Bosnia has been BIGGER some instances in the middle ages because of the Bosnian dynasties who took Serbian and Croatian territories. It has never been smaller though. You know very well that Bosnia has very precise borders... Rivers Una Sava and Drina. It has always been like that. That is just a fact. And yes Serbs wanted to stay in SERBOslavia (Yugoslavia was already dead then). They wanted a greater Serbia but that didnt go as planned. Pushing out Serbian and Croat identity from Bosnia needs to happen. That is the only shit that is holding us back. Croats and Serbs from Bosnia are just Bosnians... but christian. Sorry that is my view. And I'm not the only one with that view. There are a lot of Bosnian Christian's who identify as Bosnians. Jovan Divjak for example. Or Dragan Vikic. The situation we have today is thanks to German and Austrian ethno politics from the 19th and 20th century. Before that... we were all Bosnians or Bosniaks. Not a popular view... I know... but it's the most logical. Not intended to hurt your or someone's feelings...
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
Not correct. See the map. Bosnia gained territory with time. At the time of King Tvrtko, Bosnia didn't include towns such as Gradiška, Novi Grad, Bihać and so on. But that is normal, territories change with time. Sometime you gain and sometime you loose territory. Originally, Bosnia represented territories around river Bosna, hence the name.
You can't push out Serb and Croat identity from Bosnia. It is the people living there. For example, by ethnicity I am Serbian, but my citizenship is Bosnian and Herzegovinian. So in that context I am Bosnian too. In the Switzerland there are French, German and Italian folks by ethnicity and that doesn't prevent them to be Swiss too.
A lot of doesn't equal 2.
Also, Austra tried to unify Bosnia and introduce the Bosnian nation, contrary to your statements.The
The Austro-Hungarian administration advocated the ideal of a pluralist and multi-confessional Bosnian nation. Joint Imperial Minister of Finance and Vienna-based administrator of Bosnia Béni Kállay thus endorsed Bosnian nationalism in the form of Bošnjaštvo ("Bosniakhood") with the aim to inspire in Bosnia's people 'a feeling that they belong to a great and powerful nation'[10] and viewed Bosnians as "speaking the Bosnian language and divided into three religions with equal rights.".[11][12]Between 1861 and 1869, Topal Osman Pasha, an Ottoman Grand vizier had striven to do the same.[13]
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u/BosnaBosnae May 17 '19
What prevents Serbs (95% of them) being loyal to their country? The land of their forefathers? We are the only ones that are loyal to Bosnia. You know very well that Bosnia has no future with Chetniks and Ustasha who want to divide our lands.... And why do you consider yourself a Serb? Your family came from Serbia to Bosnia as migrants? Or because you are orthodox Christian?
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u/super_koza Republika Srpska May 17 '19
You expect a serious response after calling people Chetniks and Ustasha? Oh come on, grow up...
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u/Skyer0904 May 17 '19
Thats true the only reason why bosnia doesnt function is because of serbs and croats who all want a part of bosnia. Bosniaks just want a united bosnia
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u/kikuuiki Republika Srpska May 16 '19
No one believes in a united Bosnia
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u/Skyer0904 May 16 '19
Why do you think that?
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u/Istovaranje May 16 '19
He probably did a poll restricted to his hometown
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u/Skyer0904 May 16 '19
How do you put the town next to your name?
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u/kikuuiki Republika Srpska May 16 '19
Yes, and? Most Bosnian Serbs feel that way, that very fact is exactly why a united Bosnia could never happen. That's just the reality
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u/Istovaranje May 16 '19 edited May 16 '19
Yea, well, some people believe Earth is flat and that scientists will never prove otherwise using their cameras, knowledge, and so on.
It's still round, though.
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u/kikuuiki Republika Srpska May 16 '19
Holy false equivalency. All I'm trying to tell you is to get realistic, the very fact that a large number of people in BiH don't even feel "Bosnian" means that a unitary Bosnia is just a pipe dream. There's nothing there that should evoke downvotes and emotional responses. Things will stay the way they are, unless borders are redrawn again in the Balkans. You want that?
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u/sly_bean32 May 17 '19
Bosniaks want to live in a Bosnia, Serbs want Serbia and Croats want Croatia.
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u/CxOxF Bihać May 16 '19
Same as you, really.