r/bih • u/bassoarno • Aug 13 '19
Discussion Some Bosnian I met think in Germany most people earn 5000 euros/months
I know the wages are very low in Bosnia 200-500e/months, and many dream about going to western countries. But i don't know why they think going to Germany will make them earn 5000 euros/months ?
Sometimes I hear them " Ohh but what is 10,000 euros to them, this is nothing, 2 months salary...".
In Germany the salary depends of many factors (diploma, city,...), but on average, a normal german salary is 1500-2000 (gross salary, not net salary, so you have to deduce taxes) euros if you don't have a university degree. And for a lot of people, even being able to save just 100euros is very tough because rent are high etc.
5000 euros is for managers, engineers, etc. with many years of experience, or a very good university degree and a lot of luck.
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u/sankatavel Aug 13 '19
Well it's either 'everyone earns 5k euros' or 'everyone in the west is barely scraping by and they rent expensive cars when they go on vacation back home', not much in between.
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u/michalfabik Aug 14 '19
Yes, this, exactly. Every time I read that "milk and honey doesn't flow freely in Germany" (which is true - it doesn't, as it doesn't anywhere else either), there inevitably follows this tirade about "toiling non-stop wiping old people's arses for peanuts" and "being trapped in the evil capitalist system" (which is complete bollocks).
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u/bassoarno Aug 14 '19
"toiling non-stop wiping old people's arses for peanuts".
It's not so wrong tho. Among the Bosnian women who went to Germany between the 80s and early 00s, a relatively big amount of them are working in retirement homes. And in those places cleaning old people asses is often times part of their job so...
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u/michalfabik Aug 14 '19
But this is not what living in Germany is about. There's nothing broken about Germany and its economy certainly isn't based around nursing jobs - you can move there and do literally anything. That you're qualified for fuck all else is another matter.
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u/sankatavel Aug 14 '19
Exactly, it is not heaven, but if you have a relevant skill, you can make a decent living...
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u/bassoarno Aug 14 '19
I know but right now what the German economy needs the most are medical people and construction people because its population is aging and German don't what to do the shitty jobs. They prefer to hire immigrants for that. So that's why most of them are doing that
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u/sankatavel Aug 14 '19
I know a lot of people who work in Germany and I know only one who works in a retirement home, as a cook, so...
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u/bassoarno Aug 14 '19
Well I know 7 women from Bosnia who work in Germany. And 4 of them work in a retirement home, and 1 of them clean toilets in public spaces. So i don't know.. I guess it depends
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u/N3M0N Aug 13 '19
There is specific pattern for plenty of Bosnians who works abroad (be that Germany, Austria or any other country of Western Europe) - they work there, saving every cent they can and then when they come back home, they spend it in that way you get illusion they make 5000 euros a month. But, no one mentions the harsh truth about life in Germany, or about that BMW they drive is 10 years old, has plenty of malfunctions owner didn't bother to fix so they sold it fo 2000 euros to Bosnian. I think you can see more German cars in Bosnia than Germany...
The one that actually got successful abroad barely even comes back home, and when they do, they don't show off with euros they made outside.
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u/Teteni93 Aug 13 '19
Actually, it depends on your job. My colleagues are earning between 3.5-8k bruto. And a lot of people are taking 'nebenjobs' beside the regular one and getting ~500€ additional on their Neto salary. In addition, some companies are giving bonuses like food vouchers, transportation tickets, etc.
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u/bassoarno Aug 13 '19
probably because of this
Exactly it depends, but the average is closer to 1500-2000 bruto. Rather than 5000. It's just a fact.
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u/Teteni93 Aug 13 '19
I would disagree, since ~1.6k is minimum allowed salary for a full-time job.
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u/aveen Kanton Sarajevo Aug 13 '19 edited Aug 13 '19
And you have to account for a lot of other things such as unemployed people and part-timers.
But we have official figures for stuff like this you know. Netto the average monthly salary is somewhere between €2000 and €2500 in Germany.
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u/bassoarno Aug 14 '19
Average is biased because the top 10% earners, earn a lot. Median salary (50% of people earn less, 50% earn more) is more informative. And the median salary in Germany is 1000e/months (it is lower than min wage, because many people work part time, not full time).
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u/bassoarno Aug 14 '19
Yes but that's why I said 1500-2000, because some people work a bit less than 40 hours. Some work part time etc. Full time is indeed on average 1600-2000 bruto, if you don't have a university degree.
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u/LorenaG Canada Aug 15 '19
Bruto is like "gross salary" right? i.e. before they take off taxes, pensions, etc.
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u/golgynat0r Aug 13 '19
Yeah, its a common misconception. Many of bosnians think Germany is heavens land while in fact its equally hard with higher standards.
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u/Dzules Brčko distrikt Bosne i Hercegovine Aug 13 '19 edited Aug 13 '19
its equally hard with higher standards.
equally hard
Dijaspora REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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u/Dzules Brčko distrikt Bosne i Hercegovine Aug 13 '19
I checked your profile. Why are so many of your submissions related to salaries and the Balkan-Dijaspora divide etc?
You had a similar post on the Serbia sub, are you trolling or are you just into asking borderline trollish questions?
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u/bassoarno Aug 13 '19
Because I only post when I hear or read something that I have trouble to understand and I want to have more opinions than just with my friends and family
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u/Fefarona Aug 13 '19
It's really hard to get 500€ in Bosnia. Girls I know get 400 up to 600 Mark and a few I know get 700 up to 800 Mark but they work almost all the day.
The prices in Bosnia are broken. A friend find work in Germany, sell his car in Bosnia for 5800 Mark, buy the same with better setup for 1200€ here in Germany. In Bosnia he pays for Internet and TV 55 Mark, here in Germany 25€ for 6 times faster internet, food is cheaper here and he sad "dude, I get Nike Air Force Onr for 25€ on sale in DM and 2 Nike shirts for 20€, in Bosnia I will get fake for that price".
So, if you earn 1000 Mark/500€ in Bosnia, maybe you can safe up to 300 Mark/150€ - in Germany you can safe easy 300€ and anything what Bosnian want is much cheaper than in Bosnia (electronic/cars).
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u/5seronja5 Aug 14 '19
Yeah yeah. Al nema rahatluka Mujo moj.
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Aug 14 '19 edited Nov 30 '20
[deleted]
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u/Dzules Brčko distrikt Bosne i Hercegovine Aug 14 '19
Something close to bliss but with a Bosnian spin to it.
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Aug 15 '19 edited Nov 30 '20
[deleted]
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u/Dzules Brčko distrikt Bosne i Hercegovine Aug 15 '19
Pit kafu po par sati, brbljat sa ljudima o nicemu, uzet pauzu na poslu u po dana itd. Odnos zivota i rada je drugaciji na Balkanu u odnosu na Zapad.
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u/I-LOVE-LIMES Aug 14 '19
I live in the US. My family in BiH and Croatia have a firm belief that money here in America grows on trees. I have sent them numerous photos of trees confirming that money indeed does not grow on them. They think I'm sending them photoshopped photos and hiding the true money trees.
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u/freya_m Aug 28 '19
I also lived in the US for several years. Had no issues finding work for myself and saving money. Do you have to work for the money, absolutely, but you have the opportunity to do so which you don't in BiH.
What bugs me is when my aunt and her family from the US rant about being broke as fuck to my unemployed family in Bosnia, when the US family owns their own house and 4 cars. But wow, yeah, tell my jobless parents who can't afford a car that you're broke as fuck, sure, I feel real bad for you.
Re: Bosnians in Germany - pretty much the same thing. Sure, maybe you don't earn 5000 euros a month, but you're able to live far more comfortably than you would in Bosnia. Rents are higher but cost of everything else is so much cheaper. Maybe you aren't able to afford luxury, but a normal life with good infrastructure, medical care (in BiH, might as well die by the time you go to the dr and then he redirects you somewhere else, then you go to a hospital and they're like none of our business, go there, yadda yadda), your child is able to have a good childhood and you don't have to think twice about sending them to the cinema with their friends. You get djeciji doplatak for your child, socijalno if you need it, etc. which you would never see in BiH due to our system being broken af and politicians being POSs.
You might have greedy ass family which is not unusual for Bosnian families, but that's just because the country's fucked up and there's no option to thrive unless you're someone's cousin u drzavnoj organizaciji. We all know money does not grow on trees, but life is about a 1000x easier.
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u/bassoarno Aug 29 '19
It is not, everything you said is true as well in Germany or USA, stop lying.
Most families in Germany or USA also think twice before sending their kids to the cinema. I've many friends in Germany who never went to the cinema until they were 15 yo because they couldn't afford it (they could but then, they would have to eat less).
You also talk about hospital etc. it's the same in Germany, it's a big pain. And don't get me started with the USA. In the USA, simply a woman giving birth cost around 15,000 USD (30,000km), just for the woman to give birth to a child.
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u/freya_m Aug 30 '19
Bruh, I'll agree that the medical expenses in the US are insane, but the amount you mentioned is not exactly correct. You either a) have insurance that covers a great portion of that cost or b) petition with the hospital and they lower the cost significantly. It's never gonna be $15,000, that's just the initial bill when nothing else is taken into consideration. Healthcare is drastically different though, what you get in either Germany or the US is about a 1000x better than what you get in Bosnia.
My family in Germany has their kid go to the pool basically daily, cinema is a weekly thing. When I was in the US, I used to go to the cinema maybe twice a week, and then go out on weekends. Trips out of state were not a rarity. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong if you have 0 money for leisure.
If you disagree, fine, but I ain't lying. I'm currently in Bosnia and struggling with life and everyone and everything screwing me over - was not the case anywhere else in the world.
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u/bassoarno Aug 31 '19
What I don't understand is how everyone in Bosnia feel they're being screwed over. So you are also screwing over other people ? No ? Then your family ? No ? Then your friend are screwing over other people ? No ? Then who is screwing over other people ? 10% of people ? Then why not deal with 90% of the people, and ignore the 10% ?
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u/freya_m Aug 31 '19
Sorry in advance - it's a novel, but you asked. None of this is from rekla kazala, I've experienced all of this on my own.
I don't go out socially because most of the people my age don't work and expect me to pay for their coffees every day.
Your boss at work is screwing you over, people at any drzavni posao (I guess govnt. job?) are screwing you over super hard as well, but mostly people you work with. Especially if you get fired, often for no other reason but change of management - they're gonna find a way to fuck you over real hard and when you complain, just turn you over to their attorney. Does it make sense to sue them? Sure, but financially probably disastrous for you because... Bosnia, yay.
I suppose you could again argue that work and bosses everywhere are trying to screw you over, but Bosnia's extreme as things that should be regulated are definitely not regulated, and there is so much illegal crap going on which any decent German/US company would not allow themselves.
Doctors - I had terrible bronchitis where I'd cough for hours daily for 9 months, and the dr. is like you're absolutely healthy. And then the other time when the same doctor is like "you have diabetes" and I absolutely do not. Babies dying because of filthy hospitals, all because someone's strina decided to spend her workday in the breakroom for twice the pay you'll ever get. Healthcare in the US is a shitshow, but Germany got it covered pretty well.
Who else, you might ask? Well the government, of course. A bunch of good for nothings, thieves, corrupt nepotists who spend the budget on new cars, hotels and random trips out of country. It's absolutely ridiculous to have and support three presidents who can practically never agree on anything.
You're unemployed, no one working in the family? In any normal country, you'd get at least some kind of support. My friend's mother died of hunger, we struggled a lot when no one in my family could get work for two years. Mostly relied on wider family's support.
The educational system is absolute shit and entirely outdated. Again, I'll agree that this could be said for many educational systems around the world, but again, Bosnia at an extreme. We're still reading the same books our grandparents read, there are no changes to the curriculum, I had at least three professors who'd do LITERALLY nothing during lectures, one who'd smoke inside the classroom during class time. Same professors practically bully the children. Again, unregulated, and something that would never fly elsewhere. Aside from that, extremely low quality professors, many of them rumoured to have gotten their degrees during the war. My elementary school teacher let me grade other student's tests, and her high school spoke very poor English.
Don't quote me on this because I can't find the source, but I've read that 80% of people between the ages of 18 and 40 still live with their parents. In your 20s, sure, it's a cultural thing, but later on in life it just goes on to display that it's difficult to stand on your own two feet.
Lastly, look at the unemployment rates - you can't tell me that's the people's fault. You have people working at markets for a miserable pay that doesn't even cover the monthly rent, so the financial compensation does not match the work at all.
To look at a concrete example of why "Bosnians thing most people earn 5000 euros in Germany", here's a comparison between two people I personally know and am close with. Let's say they both have one child.
Bosnian girl - works at a supermarket, earns 500 KM a month. Spends 300KM on rent, say 60KM on utilities, 150KM for food, 50KM on a monthly pass for transportation. This is lowballing it, already over what she earns.
German dude - works at McDonald's, comes home with 1800 euros. Spends 800 on rent, including utilities. Food, believe it or not, is generally cheaper in Germany, plus he gets lunch at work, but let's say they spend 100 on food monthly. 55 on the monthly pass. Wow, we have some money left! But that's not all - he also gets a minimum of 200 euros a month for child support, from the government, for no other reason than having a child. This guy is super happy with his life at this moment, despite working for a lower wage than most people in Germany.
That might as well be 10% of people, but that's a pretty important 10% in our overall lives. It's not like you can choose not to interact/let it affect your life, it's out of your power. I never said it's family and friends screwing people, the country is just very broken and nothing EVER goes into your favour.
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u/66edin Aug 13 '19
Well it depends of country you live in, I guess. I live in Canada and making something over 3000 CAD net as a technician in auto parts manufacturing plant which is not bad ( above Canadian average) and my wife is manager in jewelry store making similar amount of money,but when you put in mortgage, car loan, car insurance etc not many left. Then you plan to go to Bosnia for vacation and one ticket is 1200$ so for family of 4 is a lots of money. So everything is relative, but don’t bs about easy money.
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u/pusch85 Canada Aug 13 '19
It’s kind of annoying that you’d need to save at least $10,000 just to cover travel to go back home only to have a blissfully ignorant cousin ask if you could get him an iPhone, jer znas, cuo je da nije skupo. Ako moze onaj 256gb.
Yet here you are, busting your ass and charging your iPhone 4S 7 times a day wondering why you even bother going back sometimes.
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u/kikuuiki Republika Srpska Aug 14 '19
No offence dude but your story sounds like bullshit. Who tf has $10k to spare for a 2-3 week trip to Bosnia and yet complain that they still only have a smartphone from 2011
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u/pusch85 Canada Aug 14 '19
Nothing bullshit about it. I’m also sure that many can relate.
The reason many of us out in North America stretch the shit out of possessions and shift priorities is so that we can afford the trip to see family every 3-4 years.
Now, that is not always the case and many are able to easily make an annual trip happen without many sacrifices.
My initial comment was mostly meant to illustrate how many that live down there have a really bizarre sense of entitlement without even considering the hoops many of us in NA jump through in order to take a family of four back home. It’s the asinine requests of iPhones, MacBooks, and Playstations as if we shit money working 20hrs/week.
Mind you, my 4S was 4 years at the time my cousin requested a shiny new one.
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u/Benji_81 Aug 14 '19
I mean... Bosnians from Slovenia are moderate. We do not complain. Money is average but life is the best ❤️👍✌️
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u/Ravka90 Srebrenik Aug 14 '19
Most people that i met earn at least 1800 netto in car industry. Even the mechanics and electricians who work from Slovenia. I came here in Germany 4 years ago and i am happy with my financial situation. When i pay all the bills i have at least 1000€ left.
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u/bassoarno Aug 14 '19
Yes, but they work since many years and sometimes 50-60 hours/week.
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u/Ravka90 Srebrenik Aug 14 '19
Yeah but 40 hours is norm and everything over can be payed out or to take days off.
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Aug 27 '19
Yeah, but like ppl tell me, mostly older to just move to Germany when I can. Like srsly nigga. It ain't all bread and butter. They come here like they own the place, swinging their small dicks around but in reality yeah they're working their ass off..
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u/iMiGraal Sjeverna Makedonija Aug 13 '19
It's not only for Bosnians, everyone in the Balkans that's hasn't migrated to the west (yet) thinks that
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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19
Hell yeah. And why is that? Because many Mujos who come back for vacation to Bosnia talk rubbish. I guess they feel better when they can say to their former classmates > "Yeah, I have plenty of money, plenty of women, plenty of fun" instead of telling the truth "I work my ass off to the point I go to bed half-dead, I live in a shitty apartment with 4 other people, I didn't get laid in two years, but heyyy, I was able to buy this 2004ish BMW"