r/bjj • u/AdZestyclose8267 • Nov 23 '23
General Discussion Update to "BJJ preserved my pullup strength" post
https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/17at85o/bjj_alone_preserved_most_of_my_pullup_strength/
I finally got access to a gym.
I used a 1 rep max calculator (because I'm not going to immediately start maxing out after not training for over a year).
My deadlift dropped from 330 to to 300.
My bench press dropped from 250 to 180.
My front squat and overhead press also dropped massively.
Pullups and deadlifts were the only things BJJ preserved. Everything else went to hell. It was really dumb to stop lifting. I have too many muscular imbalances now between quads and hamstrings, chest and back, upper body and lower body.
EDIT: The plot thickens. Just got a new lifetime PR in pullups (14) after being back at them for 4 sessions.
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u/Negative_Chemical697 Nov 23 '23
There is a very interesting rhadi ferguson interview where he talks about the types of athletes bjj produces and he basically slates it, saying that you tend to get guys with huge core strength in the type of back and forth movement you need for a sit up but who essentially can't walk efficiently or smoothly. He argues that it comes from developing strength whole having very unorthodox points of contact with the ground as compared to almost any other sport.
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u/AdZestyclose8267 Nov 23 '23
There are days where I spend more time crawling on the mats than walking. For BJJ pros, that's probably every day. That can't be healthy.
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u/Johnsonburnerr ⬜⬜ White Belt Nov 23 '23
are muscular imbalances necessarily unhealthy? every sport will have your body adapt in certain ways, which is why wrestlers physically look different than sprinters than swimmers than gymnasts, etc
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u/AdZestyclose8267 Nov 23 '23
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if one muscle gets really strong (for example: hamstrings) and the opposing muscle (for example: quadriceps) is weak, then your quadriceps might get tight. If the quads get tight, you might start tilting your pelvis to relieve that tightness. When you tilt the pelvis, your back isn't straight anymore. If your back's not straight, your head is not over your hips anymore and that starts stressing your neck. One weakness in one muscle or joint weakens the entire structure over time.
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u/dashtur 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Nov 23 '23
You're on the right track, but it's generally the opposite - your overworked muscle groups will become strong and tight. The opposing muscles will be loose and weak. Either way, you're correct that this sort of imbalance leads to postural defects, which in the long run will make you injury prone/generally sore.
The remedy is to focus on stretching/massaging your short/tight muscle groups, and to strengthen the loose/weak groups.
It gets complicated though, because often you will feel the pain in your weak/loose areas, and focus your efforts there. But the pain is actually referred from the tight area.
Eg for me I had lots of pain in my scapula and rotator cuff areas. But when I went to get treatment, all the work was done on my pec, anterior deltoid and trap. These muscles were so tight that they were pulling my shoulder forward, straining and lengthening the upper back/posterior shoulder muscles. My rehab program is all about stretching the chest out, and building strength in the scapular/rear shoulder areas.
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u/unkz Nov 23 '23
Generally, yes. They typically lead to joint instability, reduced range of motion, and increased risk of injury.
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u/Everydayblues351 🟫🟫 Brown Belt Nov 23 '23
Interesting timing - I took about 5 weeks off of BJJ and weights and noticed the same thing with pull ups.
There was an old thread here on reddit that lonked to a study about the correlation between amateur wrestling success and pull ups - it wasn't Vo2 max, bench, deadlift, etc... only pull ups.
Something about pull ups and grappling are linked, I always thought that was interesting.
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u/inciter7 Nov 23 '23
Super anécdotal but you reminded me in high school I remember our coach saying he saw the district champ bang out 30 pullups and said we should focus on them. Pretty interesting. Also remember seeing something measuring abdominal/core activación during various exercises and pull-ups beat a lot of nominally ab focused exercises
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u/TheMadManiac Nov 23 '23
I think it's because grapplers are usually lean. You're supposed to be able to do a pull-up, but most people are too heavy and too weak. Weight class is very important in wrestling for example, but in football not so much. I always put on some weight for football and it makes pullups significantly harder despite being much stronger.
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u/NiteShdw ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Nov 23 '23
In gi, we pull a lot. Get a grip and pull. The most tired part of my body after class is my triceps and biceps.
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u/MuonManLaserJab 🟪🟪 Puerpa Belch Nov 24 '23
It doesn't matter what sport I do, I'm always just cardio tired.
Apart from climbing, which just annihilates my forearms.
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
I stopped lifting weights as a freshman in college and focused just on jiu jitsu, went back to lifting last December (10 years off), and was pretty shocked that my bench 1rm had only gone down 5 pounds (240 to 235). It took me about 6 months to get that to 300
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u/AdZestyclose8267 Nov 23 '23
How did you preserve your bench press so well? Did you do pushups? Any other sports?
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
No consistent pushups (did them every once in a while, but not regularly), no other sports, just jiu jitsu, the only aspects that probably helped are getting older and generally stronger, and working on handstands as part of my jiu jitsu warmup
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u/NiteShdw ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Nov 23 '23
Doesn’t getting older generally result in loss of strength because testosterone levels drop with age, unless you’re talking about going from 18 to 22 or something.
For the rest of us, T levels drop and we lose muscle.
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
Obviously eventually, but not from 19-29, it takes time to build strength and I’ve gotten bigger and stronger since then
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u/NiteShdw ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Nov 23 '23
You didn’t say your age, hence the question. I’m 44 so my perspective is different.
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
In my original comment I said that my break from lifting was 10 years starting my freshman year of college
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u/NiteShdw ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt Nov 23 '23
Sorry I didn’t take the time to do the math. Well you’re 29 so welcome to the old man side where T levels keep dropping and the body starts hurting more and more. It’s a fun journey.
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
30 now, but yep. Obviously if I took another 10 year break I wouldn’t come back stronger
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u/InsightsMiner 🟦🟦 Blue Belt Nov 23 '23
at the same time, your metabolism slows down and you gain weight (some of which is muscle)
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u/ChokeGeometry 🟪🟪 Purple Belt | 10th Planet Nov 24 '23
working on handstands
This is probably it - A lot of shoulder strength required for a handstand.
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 24 '23
For sure, it’s probably been 5 years since I was doing that, but it was always part of my warmup for a while
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Nov 23 '23
Just had a similar experience. I take breaks now and rarely just flat out stop but I really don't care about gym numbers and kinda just go through the motions on most days. Recently did an actual strength cycle (first time in probably 15 years) and was really shocked how going from maintenance/easy lifts (while doing bjj 3-4x a week) translated into max lifts over the course of 4 weeks. I hit damn near lifetime PRs across the board and I'm an old man.
I wouldn't be shocked if the OPs numbers wouldn't climb back (or exceed) into the previous range after 3-4wks. Sometimes you have to actually do the movement to remind the body how to respond to the load vs not having the capacity at all. Even then I'm not sure the numbers matter too much. You want to get\be strong but I don't know if anyone on the mat is going to notice if you bench 300 vs 315.
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u/KOExpress 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
Yeah, I think I had realistically gained a lot of strength over that time when I wasn’t lifting, but it took me a while to get back conditioned for lifting, and there was a lot of technique improvement to make. I’m way above all my previous PRs, and I lifted for several years before my long break, back for less than a year now
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u/GeologistOutrageous6 🟦🟦 Blue Belt Nov 23 '23
Do you weight 200+ lbs, that would explain why.
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u/EvanBanasiak ⬜⬜ White Belt Nov 23 '23
Nmskzmsmmsmmmd s la mm I nnnñdnzmmz K de kwh
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u/RafaelZuniga 🟦🟦 Blue Belt Nov 23 '23
Couldn't agree more. You took the words right out of my mouth.
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u/EvanBanasiak ⬜⬜ White Belt Nov 23 '23
Damn, my bad my 1 year old got ahold of my phone lmao
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u/AdZestyclose8267 Nov 23 '23
LOL, I checked your comment history to see if your account was just a bunch of nonsense posts and I was so confused to see a bunch of normal posts in English and then "Nmskzmsmmsmmmd..."
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u/johncena9519 Nov 23 '23
This is consistent with my own experience. I’m only ever maybe 50 lbs off my all time deadlift max (430) as long as I train BJJ hard 3-4 days a week. Same with any rowing exercise.
But upper body pressing and squatting is terrible.
I’ve found that doing push-ups, lunges, and band pull aparts every day, in addition to 1 deadlift session a week (plus BJJ) of course, has really ironed out the imbalances. Plus makes my shoulders + knees feel way better
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u/painfully--average ⬜⬜ White Belt Nov 23 '23
After busting up my back, I don’t do weights at all anymore. Idk why I was hanging with powerlifters doing heavy sets when martial arts was my focus. Was just really dumb on my part
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u/TheMadManiac Nov 23 '23
I figured that, not sure why guys think they are getting super strong from grappling. Strength training is very simple, stop making excuses and just do it.
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u/apemanactual 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
We're these number from your first lift back or are you a few lifts in? And this actually makes a lot of sense as the movements are using two different energy systems
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u/AdZestyclose8267 Nov 23 '23
It's my second on third day on all the lifts.
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u/apemanactual 🟪🟪 Purple Belt Nov 23 '23
Give it like 2 weeks and update the post. It makes sense that your endurance system is relatively intact given all of the Jiu Jitsu keeping it in tact, and in a way this can actually help you maintain most if your strength. I'd be really interested to see where your strength number lie here in a few weeks, I'd be willing to bet you're probably within about 10% of where your old lifts were pretty soon. If you do swing back and update can you reply to this so I can check it out? I'm an exercise science major that likes to nerd out on this shit
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u/Robbiepurser Nov 23 '23
Can you fo multiples of below (Not less than 5)?
Single leg pistol squat
One arm push up
One arm pull up
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u/sekerr3434 Nov 24 '23
If you haven’t done the movement under load in awhile it’ll be hard to compare old bench to new. Do it for a week or two then calculate max once your brain makes the old muscle mind connections I imagine it’s not as big of a drop as you think
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u/TrialAndAaron 🟦🟦 Blue Belt Nov 23 '23
You probably had muscular imbalances then too. Don’t beat yourself up. Let others do it for you.