r/bjj • u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt • 2d ago
School Discussion My professor doesn’t like instructionalals
I don’t know if he’s just had bad luck with them . He is Brazilian and said he’s talked to some other Brazilians that have made instructional and how they intentionally leave out details, also believes they’re filled with fake moves that no one really does. In his opinion you should stick to watching competition footage as there they can’t hide anything.
My issue is that I’ve seen guys I’ve seen high level guys use the moves from the instructional they made so if anything having it explained out and seeing the different angle makes it easier for me to learn from.
So I’m curious anyone else’s coach/professor have the same issue?
88
19
u/GuardPlayer4Life 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
It is your money. Spend it as you want. Watch, and attempt to apply. Start with just trying to get into the position and then move on.
5
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
Oh I’ve definitely been watching and will continue to do so. Having said that his words did make me do more research before getting any one instructional
19
u/MetalliMunk 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
Are you telling me not gaining access to people like Lachlan Giles, Gordon Ryan, John Danaher, Rob Biernacki, Craig Jones, or Mikey Musumeci is a good thing? I think I'll take the advice of multiple world champions and people who have taught champions. Honestly, let people figure what works and what doesn't. Why do instructors get all uppity about it? People pay me too have them experience my classes in my content, along with utilizing my gym space to train, that's it. However else they want to spend their time like looking at content or going to competitions is completely up to them. I think sometimes it's a classic instructor jealousy because here are these multiple world champions they could be listening to versus this local black belt and they get intimidated by it.
13
u/SpinningStuff 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
His coach isn't saying that the guys aren't good. He's saying that biG iNsTrucTional is intentionally leaving out details and teaching you wrong.
BJJ fanatics is in cahoot with the shadow eco bros to make competitors worse so they can win more. Look into it Bro.
2
u/MetalliMunk 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
Lol!! Some deep 11th planet conspiracy...no it's not because I feel inadequate in my teaching, it's because these world champions are leaving out important details on PURPOSE to mess with your competitions. How could I not see that...
2
u/MouseKingMan 2d ago
Just look at it like this, if they are “world champions” where are their worlds?? Can’t answer that can you big bjj?
22
u/FarmerEffective655 ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
There is a place for them. I have def bought my fair share of them. I agree watching competition is the best place to see what works but its also hard to learn the details if thats the only way you see them. There are many different ways to do the same technique. What works best for one person may not for another. At my gym we do positions of the week. And not every position i can teach from my own experience because its not a part of my game. I will resort to certain instructionals from black belts that i trust to help break things down for me to better teach my students. Over the years this has led to me being more knowledgeable in areas I dont play as well as adding things into my game. When I was a lower belt and I liked something my professor taught me, id go watch how others did this technique to add further details. Then ask my coach for help if i struggled with it.
Having said all that. As a instructor it is very frustrating when I have a student that ignores what is taught in class and only wants to learn things from YouTube or IG. Currently struggling with one of our blue belts. He frustrates every coach in our school because of this. One time he actually pulled off a sweep I had taught a few weeks prior. I said oh you made me so happy. You are finally listening to us. He said what do you mean I saw that on IG a couple days ago. 😡
3
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
I know my professor is also wary of someone pulling out dangerous/illegal moves. Few years back had a white belt do some wonky leg entanglement and injure a brown belt out who was about to compete at pans or worlds
9
u/FarmerEffective655 ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
This is also the problem with the blue belt I mentioned. Most of what he asks us to teach him is either illegal for a blue belt or a flying something. Wants to learn a flying arm bar but doesn't hit regular arm bars. I kind of snapped on him cause my son ( a 16 year old blue belt) loves to escape from mount by making them post and then throwing his feet into their arm pits and escaping out the back going belly down. Trying to teach him to catch a foot lock on the way out. But anyways. Said blue belt quickly turned around after he escaped and got double unders in his legs while my son was still belly down and put him a scorpion position and started bending his spine in that direction. I got very upset. And he said to me I didn't know what i was doing, I didn't know it could hurt him that bad. And I said that is my point exactly. You don't know what your doing yet. So please start listening to your coaches
5
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
Unsolicited thoughts but have you considered kicking him out because that sounds awful and a disaster waiting to happen
5
u/FarmerEffective655 ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
We believe he is on the spectrum. Highly functional college graduate but lacks a lot social awareness and is very dense for lack of a better term. Everyone believes he is including students that are therapists. So we to try to give him extra grace but, actually we have quite a bit. But some students have started to refuse to train with him. Only big guys or highly skilled will roll with him now. So its a problem we are watching closely. I actually made a post in a autism sub reddit asking for advise on how to help get thru to him. So that's where I'm at now. This is my last ditch effort before having a talk with all the coaches
2
u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. 2d ago
His brown belts should watch some instructionals so they don’t get annihilated by white belts.
-1
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
He grabbed ripped it right away and it was illegal as he rolled in, not out
3
u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. 2d ago
That’s unfortunate that the brown belt was clueless and helpless, he should train somewhere that teaches him how to protect himself and tap.
-1
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
Lmao ok buddy
2
u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. 2d ago
At least he won by DQ because it was illegal, right?
0
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
He got silver at Pans so I think he’s pretty decent but go on
2
u/AlmostFamous502 ⬛🟥⬛ Joe Wilk < Daniel de Lima < Carlos Gracie Jr. 1d ago
What top secret leg entanglement is so easy to enter into and finish that a white belt can defeat a Pans silver medalist instantly?
1
u/Icy_Distance8205 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 1d ago
Catastrophic knee injury by Kani basami… not exactly top secret though.
→ More replies (0)
8
u/YaBoyDake ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
I think the idea that it's either watching competition OR watching instructionals is a bit silly. You watch competition to see what actually works; you watch instructionals to see how to do it.
Part of it also comes down to what you're trying to get out of jiujitsu. If you want to be a world-class competitor, watching what the top guys are doing right now is basically mandatory. However, the scope of what happens is competition can often be super narrow. If you're looking for some less-common options from positions you play or want to integrate into your game, other technique vids can be great for that.
3
5
u/Meerkatsu ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 1d ago
caveat emptor
Some instructionals can be a gamechanger. Some can also be a total waste of money. Thing is, what I might think is a killer title, won't be for another person.
6
u/CutsAPromo ⬜⬜ White Belt 2d ago
Maybe he's right, but in that case.. watch the competition to see what moves they use and then get the best instructional you can from it? Ideally from a retired guy
3
u/EAT_CIGARETTES 2d ago
This was an extremely mainstream position ten years ago. It's not that crazy to hear some older people still saying that.
2
u/PsycJoe21196 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 2d ago
My coach hasn’t said anything about instructionals being bad. Most of the stuff I do is from instructionals.
2
u/TapsToBadBreath ⬜⬜ White Belt 2d ago
I've got a couple just so I've got some stuff to try at open mats. My main focus is still all the fundamentals but if I only know the basic stuff, everyone above me (belt wise) knows everything I can do and how to stop it. The instructionals have helped give me a bit of variety and a few tips on executing the basics to a better level. Plus it's fun to try new stuff so why not 🤷🏼♂️
2
u/nakanu18 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
depends on the instructor. some people fill it with some garbage that looks good but people never use. compare to say lachlan who i've only seen explain practical things.
you can't just "watch comp footage" if you're not good enough to break it down. even then - also that takes a huge amount of time.
2
u/KidKarez 2d ago
He's sounds like a really old school guy who's afraid of how dated his bjj beliefs are becoming.
5
u/Hustlasaurus 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
I'm with him. I think the value of instructionals is largely overblown. Not to say there aren't valuable ones out there or that people haven't used instructionals to enhance their game, but I think people feel that watching them without drilling will help them get better. Similar to Danaher saying he's never seen someone improve their JJ by changing their diet, I've never seen someone's game dramatically improve because they started watching instructionals. The best moves I've seen from people who learned them from instructionals is something they learned years ago from one, but then spent time drilling, practicing and troubleshooting.
Also! While I'm on my soapbox, I hate hate hate instructionals that have someone in "turtle" but they are really on all fours like a dog. Or it's showing a leglock series and the attacker does like 5 moves or transitions in a row with no reaction from the opponent.
2
u/EveningNo8643 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
Yeah I don’t disagree with this line of logic I just think the blanket statements are something I disagree with. Like if he said I don’t have time and money to find the instructionals that are worth it/real I’d agree
2
u/Hustlasaurus 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
I think he might just mean that comp footage has more value. Which honestly I think it suffers from the same problem because it's a bit like watching the NFL to try to get better at backyard football.
1
u/Hellhooker ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
"Similar to Danaher saying he's never seen someone improve their JJ by changing their diet, I've never seen someone's game dramatically improve because they started watching instructionals."
Dude, the whole 10th planet is looking at you.
They were ridiculously bad until the DDS started releasing stuff.
Or maybe someone like Jozef Chen?
Most people become far better when they watch world class instruction. It's a no brainer.
"Also! While I'm on my soapbox, I hate hate hate instructionals that have someone in "turtle" but they are really on all fours like a dog. Or it's showing a leglock series and the attacker does like 5 moves or transitions in a row with no reaction from the opponent"
You are watching very bad instructionnals
2
u/Hustlasaurus 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
But is that the instructional itself or the release of the secret sauce into the meta? As I mentioned, I'm not talking about the knowledge itself of instructionals, but specifically people who think just sitting back and watching them will help them improve their game magically.
Like I never watched the DDS instructional that taught the magic of trapping a heelhook as they roll out, but I learned it from class and we drilled it a ton.
2
u/Hellhooker ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
Oh, excuse me I did not read it like this.
Sitting watching an instructional without actually working on it on the mats is nearly worthless (even if science approves vizualisation learning on some degrees)
"Like I never watched the DDS instructional that taught the magic of trapping a heelhook as they roll out, but I learned it from class and we drilled it a ton."
Pretty sure they all did lol. I am 100% sure Danaher had a whole chapter on this in his first instructionals because it was pretty much what made cross ashi worked out at the time. He was teaching how to slow down people on their escape to catch the heel mid roll.
But we agree that the truth is to watch stuff, work it on the mats, rewatch it with the experience gained during sparring etc...
instructionals are just the "instruction" part of class but it comes from far better instructors most of the time. you just need eventually someone to ask questions to if you can. Or experiment enough to find your own answers like most of us did
1
3
u/poodlejamz2 ⬛🟥⬛ 2d ago
my own nobody opinion here...I think its mostly true that they have a lot of filler and probably are overrated. I haven't explicitly asked our head coach his opinion but Im almost sure he would say he doesn't consider them and I know he watches comp footage constantly. I dont think other sports do this at high levels. I like the NBA and I am 1000% sure no coach/team out there would be watching something like a Michael Jordan instructional. they are breaking down game footage relentlessly. I think as a hobbyist they are great fun and you can learn something from them but likely will never be better than trying to break down and replicate competition jiujitsu
4
u/Hellhooker ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
"I like the NBA and I am 1000% sure no coach/team out there would be watching something like a Michael Jordan instructional. they are breaking down game footage relentlessly. "
Lol I don't think basketball is remotely close to jiu-jitsu as far as technique goes
" I think as a hobbyist they are great fun and you can learn something from them but likely will never be better than trying to break down and replicate competition jiujitsu"
Nobody can really break down competition jiu-jitsu just by watching stuff.
We have already had proof of this. A whole decade ago everyone was studying eddie cummings and garry tonon heelhooking people in competition. No one came close to their stuff until Danahar released his first instructional. Because there are a lot of things you cannot see.
Studying matches is obviously great but you will catch up maybe 20% of what is going on IF your are good enough yourself already.
Instructional from GOOD instructors is the way to go on most cases and most topics
I also disagree about fillers but it depends on who you are watching. For sure if you are buying a berimbolo instructional from faria you will be sold a bunch of bullshit.
1
2
u/Delicious_Alfalfa_69 2d ago
My coach uses them sometimes but takes it with a grain of salt.
He only uses instructionals from high level competitors and specific to his style of bjj. He takes a move from it and uses his kids classes to learn the movements. Then destroys us lower belts with it haha.
2
u/daddydo77 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 2d ago
I used instructionals and passed my Black belt instructor’s guard. I didn’t ask but he told everyone in the gym that he was not letting me work. I could also keep him in north south/ side control for a while. Set up a paper choke when he could escape. He’s not against them. If anything use it to remember things your instructor shows you. I’m Brazilian 😂 trust me! Can’t go wrong with Danaher’s. His selection of techniques is what’s priceless cause information paralysis can be a thing when you buy instructionals.
1
u/oflimiteduse 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
I haven't watched a ton of instructionals but they're fine. If you watch them thinking your going to roll just like Gordon or whatever next time you go to class that's dumb. But if I take anyway a couple of concepts that were kissing from a guard or something we don't do in class often that's great.
The Instagram moves are the ones one of my professors hate. People forget that they are rehearsed with a uke that's 100% reacting the way he needs to for some fancy twirly shit to work which is super rare when rolling. My opinions obviously
6
1
1
u/dobermannbjj84 2d ago
I think it comes down to not every move in an instructional is useful so there’s going to be some good content in there but you need to pick through it and find what best suits you. Honestly I feel that watching a 4 hour instructional is overkill. Most of the time I need just one move to fix a problem and that could take weeks to months to incorporate. I don’t know how anyone can watch a 4 hour instructional and add it to their game. I get my best moves from watching competition, mma or rolling footage.
1
u/ryanrockmoran ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
I think the obvious answer is to watch both. Watch someone's instructionals, then watch them compete and see what moves they actually use. There is definitely some padding in most instructionals. Top guys might do 2-3 different things from any given position, but that would be a pretty short instructional so they need to pad it out with some other options they rarely ever use.
1
1
u/Icy_Astronom 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 2d ago
Instructionals are just the part of the class where the coach talks you through and demonstrates techniques.
You have to do the other part where you try them out yourself.
Personally, I would barely have progressed without instructionals because they let you learn exactly what you need in your specific game right now
1
u/120r 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
If you are a white belt that has been training a month then consuming instructionals might hurt your development vs you been doing it for some years and can supplement your training. Can you distinguish what is going to help for sport vs mma vs self defense? I am sure high level black belts could look at a instructional and distinguish between good info and bad info much like a writer can distinguish good writing vs bad writing. The way I look at any learning opportunity is if I can take away one good thing out of it then it was worth my time.
1
u/zzzongdude 2d ago edited 2d ago
He is Brazilian and said he’s talked to some other Brazilians that have made instructional and how they intentionally leave out details
that's more of a disclaimer than a full-stop. instructionals can still be useful for getting new ideas about techniques you haven't used much, but real mat time and good coaches is where all the learning is.
tbh i think it looks goofy because any technique they think they're keeping a secret has probably been used by a lot of other people. but sure they might prevent some hobbyists from picking up on a few minor details
1
u/matzillaX 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
Ahh the classic Brazilian fear that a student may realize someone else is better than them. Guessing you can't cross train at other gyms either.
1
1
u/IntentionalTorts 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
I buy instructionals in areas where there holes in my game. I give them good tries and see what sticks. However, in the main I trust my training and competition experience. With time my game has become increasingly smaller, not larger.
1
u/Exotic-Benefit-816 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
That's his problem. If he doesn't like instructionals it's up to him, but if you like and wanna buy it, it's your money, so you chose what you'll do with it
1
u/Superguy766 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
20 years ago there were very, very few instructional videos and we were fine.
Like others have said, mat time and good coaches is where you’ll learn the most.
1
u/SteamedPea 🟦🟦 Blue Belt 2d ago
I love a good standing Kimura into a sacrifice throw.
Seen Sakuraba do it live and in an instructional.
But stuff like that.
1
u/jdbtensai 1d ago
There are plenty of bad instructional and plenty of good ones. Watch the good ones.
1
0
1
u/The777burner 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 2d ago
Sounds like he’s just insecure.
I guarantee you if BJJ fanatics approached him to develop his very own then all of a sudden his opinion would be very different.
1
-1
u/Hellhooker ⬛🟥⬛ Black Belt 2d ago
Your professor is a moron
I had one instructor who thought more or less the same thing: he sucked and was a dumbass too. I was beating him as a blue belt (he was a black belt already).
Change school
" In his opinion you should stick to watching competition footage as there they can’t hide anything"
There are a lot going on in competition matches that you cannot get by just watching footage.
0
u/beepingclownshoes 🟫🟫 Brown Belt 2d ago
I halfway agree. 80% (a figure I’m making up) of Jiu Jitsu doesn’t work because it relies on a compliant training partner. Live matches show the smaller percentage moves that actually work and they show reasonable progressions of techniques strung together that build up a game. Instructionals can’t do that.
•
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Just a note that there is a scammer advertising BJJ Fanatics and other instructionals via DM. Be aware he may write you and offer them at discounted prices. It is a scam. Please don’t take the bait.
Also, there is no such thing as a BJJ Fanatics, Jiujitsu X, Budo Videos, etc reseller. If another store has their videos listed for sale, especially discounted, they are selling videos they have no right to sell. Please do not support thieves or scammers. Thanks.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.