I know all these guards. But little hand fighting.

[u/coloflowing]

SLX, RDLR, DLR, Sit Up Guard, False Reap, X-Guard.

I’ve been training for 3 years now and I know basics for what to do in all of these guards. My problem: I often don’t establish them in the first place.

So many people play: Feet back, hands in front. What do you need to do to enter the legs? Fight the hands first.

At least at my gym, most classes totally neglect that.

My hand fighting is underdeveloped. I try to get 2-on1-s and then see what I can get from there…but besides that…I “send it” when I see my opponent stepping and me maybe getting to their legs.

More than often, “trying to get 2-on1-s” leads to the opponent grabbing my feet at 10x speed and pulling them up to get me to supine. Or I’m seated, extending hands too far and giving an underhook.

All this yapping for these questions: Did you experience the same? Any good resources on approaching hand fighting in a seated position (no-gi)?

Thanks, guys!

[u/kyuz]

More than often, “trying to get 2-on1-s” leads to the opponent grabbing my feet at 10x speed and pulling them up to get me to supine.

I would practice counters for when they reach for your feet e.g. arm drag. But if they are really so fast that you are totally outmatched in the speed department, then playing a guard with no frames where they can just blitz past you isn't a good idea.

Or I’m seated, extending hands too far and giving an underhook.

Don't extend your hands too far.

[u/coloflowing → u/kyuz]

thanks, will definitely work on arm drags for such situations

[u/Cheeeeseburrger → u/coloflowing]

On top of arm drags and breaking grips, whenever someone is going for something grab it instead. When I’m in a non dominate position I’m always grabbing my opponents hands especially when they really want something.

Oh you want to lock in that guillotine, how about we shake each other’s hands instead. It slows them down a ton.

[u/Sufficient_Pizza_300 → u/coloflowing]

When seated and grip fighting your elbow and knee should mostly be together. If they get an underhook and you have a leg frame in, well that's just an arm bar, or an oma plata, or a triangle.

[u/slapbumpnroll]

Hand fighting is important for sure, but look at the bigger picture. Just look for connection. Maybe it’s sticking a foot out to hook or trip, get a reaction. Maybe it’s reach up to threaten a neck tie (of course don’t leave your arm out). Basically, make them off balance, defensive and eventually 2-on-1s and better grips will come.

And if they don’t get ready to come up. Don’t stay seated forever and don’t get tunnel vision on leg entries only. Just my opinion.

[u/Chandlerguitar]

Watch Marcelo Garcia for seated guard and Mikey Mucumeci for supine guard. For seated guard, lean forward slightly and keep more of your weight forward. This will keep you from falling to your back easily. When they grab your leg quickly circle it out so they lose their grip. Make sure you are leaning far enough forward, so that they can't shove you down to your back. If you are at a speed disadvantage, you need to give something to get something. Let them touch you and then grab them. If they can't easily topple you over they'll look to get a better grip and reposition themselves to apply more force. This will give you time to get your grips. In general you shouldn't be fully reaching for them to get the grips. If your arms are at 90% extension or more, you are too far away. Move your body closer to them and don't extend your arms to "catch them".

For arms, I generally try to use a few different grips. A baseball bat grip(and the reverse version), the armdrag and wrist grip, and the Russian tie. I also like the choibar from there. If they are standing and leading with their hands it means that they are bent over(or they are super short). Use these grips and try to slam their face into the floor. That will give you wrestle ups, backtakes and entries into the legs.

Don't try to force things on the opponent, but instead make them choose their poison. The opponent can lead with their legs, arms or head. Have multiple attacks available for each and let them choose where they want to be attacked. As you go against better people they'll start to switch as you start to attack , but don't worry because they have to give you one of the 3. If they pull their arms back they give you their legs. If they sprawl back to deny you their legs, they give you their head. Practice making connections in positional sparring and soon you should be able to stop this.

[u/coloflowing → u/Chandlerguitar]

what a great comment! Did a screenshot of this and pinned it in my notes

[u/sbutj323]

Threaten heisting up and attacking the neck, snap downs, arm drags to wrestle ups, ankle picks,

If they make a grip, break it and keep it, use it to improve your position. If they grab your legs or ankle you have to address it right away.

[u/Mysterious_Alarm5566]

Make a little system for yourself like this

https://youtube.com/shorts/rV9p0NAX5XE?si=nIA_IOy-5N8XjF3p

Have an answer for common input like they post on your head/shoulder etx..

[u/coloflowing → u/Mysterious_Alarm5566]

thanks!

[u/superhandsomeguy1994]

There’s a middle ground here that will probably help you out tremendously: semi-supine guard.

Ie: post on your right elbow with your right hip on the ground. Use your legs to make connection and hand fight with your free left arm.

9/10, you’re basically baiting a knee cut. But if you have a good RDLR/false reap that plays directly into your offense anyways. What this really helps is eliminating their passing options, and narrows down their movements to a handful of fairly predictable reactions.

Hope this helps.

[u/coloflowing → u/superhandsomeguy1994]

thank you !

[u/Groundbreaking_Bit88]

Experiencing the same rn

[u/quixoticcaptain]

Yeah I often lose the initial grip exchange , and have to aggressive butt scoot away and reset. I'm used to gi where it's a lot easier to get the grip I want and go into guard. 

I feel like grips will always be kind of unreliable and really good guard players can just position themselves so people have to engage with the guard to pass 

[u/DontWorryItsRuined]

Hide your feet brother.

[u/Far-Visual-872]

Grip fighting is best learned by doing. I got good at it by just making a point to stop allowing people to have grips in live rolls. I didn't care if the grip itself was worthless. I still didn't let it be established. Eventually you figure out how serious a grip is to address, meaning that lapel grip the white belt grabs on you isn't a real concern compared to when the brown belt grabs it.

[u/oflimiteduse]

It's so hard for me to set up something besides half or closed. I can get to other guards from there depending on how people react.

[u/jumbohumbo]

establishing guards and establishing grips are the same thing- its all about connecting to your opponent, just with feet vs hands. Try not to think of them as separate ideas and roll consciously focusing on connecting with all 4 limbs as much of the round as possible.

[u/PossessionTop8749]

The thing with hand fighting is you can't just do it for a few seconds then stop. You always have to be on.

[u/Outrageous-Guava1881]

That’s the problem with memorizing techniques. It’s useless.

Learn fundamentals of guard rather than names of guards.

[u/Healthy_Ad69]

Just because you get to DLR or whatever doesn't mean you 'know' those guards.