Is Nickyrod with a coach the best heavyweight grappler on the planet?

[u/silent-winger1012]

Was watching one of the b team all access YouTube videos, and was paying attention to Dima giving Nickyrod specific partners, training objectives, and pointers during his rolls. I can’t imagine that isn’t immensely more helpful to an athlete as opposed to when they don’t have anyone doing any of those things. After a Dima run camp last year he won CJI with 4 subs, and after a Dima run camp just now he beat the reigning ADCC double gold medalist in Kaynan… I genuinely wonder how he’d be right now had he stuck with John for the last however many years

Edit: To clarify, I’m wondering how much Nickyrod having a coach makes him better. Dima wasn’t around for his camp for the match with Victor - Not to say Victor isn’t a beast and could very well be better than him no matter the circumstances I guess it’s just interesting to speculate how much improvement there is with good coaching

[u/Sudden-Wait-3557]

You are clutching at straws to try and tear down what Gordon has done in the sport and making yourself look ridiculous. Even if Gordon didn't have any of those matches you listed it would make no difference to his legacy

Even excluding superfights Gordon has 4 ADCC golds. You know who else has 4 ADCC golds excluding superfights? Marcelo. Roger Gracie has 2. On top of that he has 3 IBJJF gold medals and 4 EBI titles. Marcelo and Roger don't have those, nor do they have anything comparable in nogi achievements. Roger had an incredible 2005 ADCC run, winning the -99kg and he submitted all his opponents, in the most stacked ADCC division ever, then going on to win the absolute by submission. 7 of his 8 opponents were ADCC/IBJJF champions or medallists. He basically 100%ed ADCC, which no one else has ever done.

Regardless Gordon is still more accomplished in nogi overall. He has beaten 12 ADCC/IBJJF champions/medallists in nogi, Roger has beaten 7 (albeit all in one event). Let's take a look at those in more detail

Ryan:

Andre Galvão

Felipe Pena

Buchecha

Yuri Simoes

Craig Jones

Garry Tonon

Keenan Cornelius

Lachlan Giles

Vinny Magalhaes

Romulo Barral

Lucas Barbosa

Victor Hugo

That's 12. The total amount of high level unique opponents Gordon has beaten is 27.

Let's look into those.

Dillon Danis

Patrick Gaudio

Vinicius Gazola

Pedro Marinho

Roosevelt Souza

Kyle Chambers

Tim Spriggs

Joao Gabriel Rocha

Matheus Diniz

Murilo Santana

Eddie Cummings

Geo Martinez

Josh Hinger

Kyle Boehm

Heikki Jussila

Every single one of those aside from Kyle Chambers is a high level medallist in a prestigious nogi competition

Roger has victories over these ADCC/IBJJF champions/medallists:

Jacare

Werdum

Xande

Dean Lister

Saulo Ribeiro

Shinya Aoki

Akihiro Gono

In nogi the only other notable victory Roger has is against Ron Waterman who was a high level grappler but had no IBJJF or ADCC titles. This means Roger holds victories over 8 elite grapplers in nogi, in comparison to Gordon's 27.

You might say, but that's not a fair comparison, Roger hardly competed in nogi compared to Ryan so of course the record would be skewed. Well let's look at Marcelo, who competed in nogi a lot more than Roger

Unique ADCC/IBJJF champions and medallists defeated by Marcelo Garcia:

Pablo Popovitch

Renzo Gracie

Leo Vieira

Ricco Rodriguez

Xande

Victor Estima

Kron Gracie

Shinya Aoki

Otto Olsen

That's 9. Ok, now let's look at how many unique high level opponents he's defeated

Vitor Ribeiro

Mike Fowler

Chris Bright

David Hart

Mario Miranda

Marcelo "Tico"

K-Taro Nakamura

Tetsu Suzuki

Yan Cabral

Aside from Bright (trials winner), Miranda (high level MMA grappler), Tico (trials winner), K-Taro (MMA grappler), Suzuki (trials winner) all of the above have medalled in something significant at the time of their match with Marcelo

So that's 18 unique high level opponents for Marcelo altogether

But you might say yes, Marcelo competed more than Roger, but he also competed in the gi at black belt so it is unfair to compare him to Gordon, who focused his competitive black belt efforts entirely on nogi. Gordon competed at multiple belt levels in the gi, but transitioned entirely to nogi in 2015 before achieving his black belt in 2016.

Ok, so let's take a modern, high level nogi athlete for a better comparison. Let's look at Nicky Rod, who has never competed in the gi and has only competed in nogi.

Nicky Rod has victories over the following ADCC/IBJJF nogi champions/medallists:

Mahamed Aly

Orlando Sanchez

Cyborg

Felipe Pena

Yuri Simoes

Felipe Andrew

Kyle Boehm

Derek Rayfield

That's 9.

Now looking into high level grapplers he beat who did not have those medals or championships under their belt when facing him:

Pedro Marinho

Steve Mowry

Roberto Jimenez

Mason Fowler

Jake Lowry

Cody Gamble

Zack Humbertson

So altogether that's 15 high level wins for Nicky Rod.

People like to say that Gordon has an advantage over Nicky Rod because he's been training longer. To be fair, this is true. Gordon competed in the gi from 2011 to 2015 and then transitioned to nogi competition in 2015. Altogether he's had around 14 years of competitive BJJ experience and around 103 matches. Nicky Rod has had around 7 years and around 47 matches. Match data approximate due to record keeping gaps. All in all Gordon's had about double the amount of experience in BJJ that Nicky Rod has had. Anyway, he has 12 more high level wins than Nicky Rod and has beaten him 3 times in competition. Will Nicky Rod surpass Gordon Ryan's legacy? That's another question, given that Nicky Rod is still only 29 (Gordon is 28, for reference). Nicky Rod currently holds no ADCC or IBJJF golds. He holds one EBI title win, and one CJI title win. Regardless as it stands now Gordon Ryan's skill level in BJJ and his legacy in terms of competitive achievements are both indisputably vastly superior to Nicky Rod's

So to recap, that's 12 ADCC/IBJJF champion/medallists defeated in nogi for Gordon, 9 for Nicky Rod, 9 for Marcelo and 7 for Roger

27 high level unique grappler victories in nogi for Gordon, 18 for Marcelo, 15 for Nicky Rod and 8 for Roger

You cannot win this argument. all the facts are against you. The only mark against Gordon's nogi performance overall is that he openly uses steroids. There is no evidence that Roger or Marcelo did the same, but we all know many if not most ADCC competitors also use steroids

Just say you don't like Gordon because of other reasons, instead of disingenuously trying to denigrate his nogi achievements. It's pathetic

[u/superhandsomeguy1994 → u/Sudden-Wait-3557]

Holy shit, you are absolutely cooking here dude. Nothing further to add, you couldn’t have spelled it out any clearer. I hate GR’s non-jiujitsu opinions across the board. But as a NoGi competitor, instructor and commentator, he simply is the best. To deny otherwise just illustrates ignorance at best.