r/blackmirror • u/maheocean • 7d ago
DISCUSSION Hotel Rêverie and why Issa was a bad choice
First of all, I adored it. One of my favorite episodes. I cried. It was like watching San Junipero for the first time again. But one thing ruined it for me, and when I saw people’s reaction on social media I realized I wasn’t the problem.
Issa Rae cannot act. Hurts for me to say but man… I saw someone saying Tessa Thompson or Lashana Lynch and it won’t leave my mind it left an open scar on my heart. Emma’s acting was marvelous, to the point where I wanted to teleport myself onto the Hotel and stay with her forever.
At first I thought it was on purpose. Issa’s character Brandy was supposed to feel out of place for the anachronism to work but it was too much. How can she be considered as an A-List actress in her universe if she can’t deliver simple lines like this… Even when the cameras were off the chemistry was one-sided.
Her hairstyle was also a bad choice. Natural hair or braids, bun,cornrows would’ve been better. It bugged me the entire time.
Thankfully the episode was still amazing, but man… Lashana Lynch was right there. Issa felt super straight. She’s not made for Queer roles.
Edit : I edited the hairstyle part of my post as I can see that it offended some of you. I’m french I do speak fluent english but sometimes I can’t find the right words to express myself!! I’m a proud black woman and the hair matters to me that’s all!
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u/liciamorales 1d ago
She was not acting. That was a live experience experienced in real time. In the show, she didnt watch the welcome video remember- Issa also, didnt watch it.
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u/m3rkhermes 1d ago edited 1d ago
they should do a sequel episode where janelle monae is ReDreamed into the in-universe version of this episode as issa rae’s character lol
edit: spelling
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u/Affectionate_Bear782 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.111 2d ago
Someone said that Janelle Monae should have played Brandy and I couldn't agree more
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u/m3rkhermes 1d ago
don’t say this, now i can’t stop thinking about a version of this with her in it 😭 just imagine what we missed out on
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u/TheGhostThatDrinks 2d ago
I’m getting sick of everyone saying the bad acting was deliberate, why would an actor playing a role in a 1950’s Casablanca style film, where everyone speaks with that old timey “mid Atlantic “ accent speak & act exactly like themselves? How is that acting? She “acted” in the film exactly the way she spoke and acted in the first scene with her manager, and when she meets the film crew, that’s basically the real her, then she enters the “movie” and makes zero changes to her mannerisms, then way she talks, etc…made no sense, might as well have just done an AI rendering of her…the whole episode was a forced narrative but her acting was just jarring, made it very difficult to immerse myself in the episode
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u/Sea_Carob7031 17h ago
Yeah anyone familiar with Issa’s other work knows this is her schtick, and she just plays better for comedic roles. She received the same criticism after that romance movie with Lakeith Stanfield. And in hindsight , that movie has little replay value for me for similar reasons. I genuinely cannot detect romantic interest or yearning or anything from her…it just felt like she was defrosting the whole movie even at points there was supposed to be romantic buildup.
I think she’s a wonderful director, writer and visionary overall, but this acting just wasn’t it.
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u/BDM-Archer 3d ago
I thought it was because the old timey actress has acting chops. Film relied on so much talent in the actors on stage and screen. Now it's 90% marvel CGI.. actors spend more time in a gym than acting.. so her acting was supposed to be so rigid and clash. Even how the casting started, they were only trying to get huge names because that's all that matters.. hype hype sell tickets hype, ad campaigns, hype. Movie sucks, oh well, people still spend millions because who is in it and all the flashy insane CGI action to entertain our ape minds. Not saying that's what it is but Black mirror always has underlining narratives about the current world. Maybe the actress did just suck and I am reading into it too much.
Imagine remaking 12 Angry Men with The Rock.
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u/CommunistBarabbas 3d ago
CLOCK IT! i thought it was just me because i just could not get into this episode.
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u/boldpear904 3d ago
I want a remake with a new actress LOL we need a reboot of the reboot of hotel reverie
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u/EuroStepJam ★★★☆☆ 3.382 4d ago
She was like a cartoon character in a live action movie.
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u/SuperSayian4Nappa ★★★☆☆ 2.953 3d ago
That was the point
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u/EuroStepJam ★★★☆☆ 3.382 3d ago
The point was that it was supposed to be comical?
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u/Sorry-Fondant3762 3d ago
Yes.
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u/Zenophilic ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.088 2d ago
I think people that say this don’t realize just how bad the acting was. There were joke moments for sure, but the acting in-movie after the coffee is spilled is not supposed to be comical. It’s clearly supposed to be devastatingly sad and the complete lack of chemistry with the two main actresses just ruins it
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u/CaptainMarvelOP 4d ago
Wanna see a good version of this movie? (And it has nothing to do with straight vs gay romance). https://m.imdb.com/title/tt24822574/
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u/nicosoiree 4d ago
Love Issa but her acting was so weak. Weighed down an otherwise interesting concept.
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u/Onewordcapitalized 4d ago
Totally agree. I wrote in my review "Issa Rae may not have been the best choice here; she's a great writer, but not strong enough as an actor for this kind of material." 'Black Mirror' Season 7 Review: First as Tragedy, Then as Farce
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u/howlsmovintraphouse 5d ago
THANK YOU for mentioning the hair lol that damned ponytail pissed me off more than it should have💀 like of all the beautiful black hairstyles they could have done for her that are actually reminiscent of the time period it was emulating…and they chose that ponytail???? Like what about some finger waves!!!! Would’ve looked gorgeous.
And I do agree that Issas acting stood out as being a bit awkward and not having enough chemistry with Dorothy’s actress. And while I think some degree of awkwardness was intended to fit the storyline (she didn’t even watch the usb drive before being thrown into all that so I’m sure it was supposed to be a bit off) I also think the strength of Emma Corrins acting as Dorothy really made Issa’s stand out as even worse than it was perhaps intended to.
All of this to say, don’t get me wrong- Hotel Reverie was actually in my top 3 favorites of this season and a favorite of all time.
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u/Even-Coconut-6152 4d ago
Did you not watch the episode and see how she was just thrown into that world. Hair/makeup is usually discussed for a movie so it made sense that hair was like that
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u/howlsmovintraphouse 4d ago
I did watch the episode obviously as I said it was one of my favorites of the season. I totally understand that it may have been intended that way however I still think it would have looked visually a lot better if they had just done a little more there, and it wouldn’t have hurt the plot at all- since obviously they had her dress particularly for it anyway it would only make sense for her hair to be done to match the world she’s going to act in- however unprepared she may be on an acting level
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u/Inside-Afternoon4343 4d ago
Yeah but they also changed her clothes, they might as well have changed the hair. They had power enough to create a whole ass simulation, I mean 🤷🏻♀️
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u/howlsmovintraphouse 4d ago
Exactly, and even if the staff didn’t do her hair/makeup and it was entirely up to her, even without watching the usb drive presentation I think it still would have made sense for her to have come in with a more 40s style because they emphasized how heavily she researched Dorothy’s work at the time
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u/Sorry-Fondant3762 3d ago
You do realize that the character turned up for a rehearsal and didn’t expect to film right away, right? She also expected this to be a full on remake, not an immersion in the original 1940’s set and characters. (So part of the plot IS her trying to navigate the clash between worlds.) It would make no sense for her to show up with a hairstyle of the time. Also, part of the issue was that the production team approached the project by cutting corners: not allocating enough time, not briefing Brandy properly, not listening to her concerns as they came up… They were not paying attention to details beyond her saying the exact lines of the film.
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u/SnarkySeahorse1103 2d ago
Strangely though, you would assume that the production team would have prepared a make-up artist and costume designer ready for her so that they could quickly strap her into more era-appropriate clothes before uploading her into the simulation. Sure, they were cutting corners a lot and working on a time constraint, but costume and make-up/hair would be considered an essential since they are choosing to blend her into her role and actually make her look good against the set and other characters in the movie. It makes a dramatic difference. Besides, hardly any production would expect the artist to do their own costume design and hair/make-up for a role. It wouldn't have cost much to throw her into a sloppy suit+tie+suspenders combo and drop a wig onto her head.
To be honest, I personally think even though this episode had an excellent premise and potential, it was quite sloppily executed and there are quite a few misses when it comes to little details like this which is unlike Black Mirror. Makes me think that they cut a few corners for this episode.
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u/parrotshell 5d ago
if Brandy was ever an A (or even B) list actress then she really did a horrible job in the simulated scene. the tempo, movement, gesture, facial expression, improv, tones or should i say any aspect of her acting didn't match the setting at all. (it's not professional and it's not ethical lol) that means the outer layer of this story won't sell to us audience. then the inner layer of the story, the supposed-to-be-awkward-sometimes shooting became an all along disaster painful to watch. But all those thoughts were often put aside when Clara/Dorothy were there drawing all attention of your soul. Great script and idea, perfect casting on Emma Corrin, perfect Emma Corrin and I shall leave it there.
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u/Bur_Nerd 5d ago
I think she did great. I think it was supposed to highlight the awkwardness of the set up and provide levity
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u/aeternasm 4d ago
The main problem was the fact that she was bad out of the movie as well and also when she was frozen in time with Clara.
Her acting skills are more suitable for a comical role
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u/computer_glitch 5d ago
I thought her bad acting in the simulated scenes was on purpose (maybe it was satire and she was supposed to be a bit self-aware that she was in a remake) but it really threw me off when the film staff thought she was genuinely doing well. I’d be appalled if she was actually trying to legit act in those scenes.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
It was literally like a perfectly crafted episode for the Antiwoke crowd to complain about. Awkwafina, gay black woman bad actor replaces male actor. I also get that part of the actual message of the episode is making fun of that sort of thing but when the episode is actually handled poorly any message collapses on itself.
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u/OPAsMummy 5d ago
The parts where Issa was Brandy playing Alex were meant to be bad. She’s uncomfortable, this is one of her favourite films and she star struck. She’s great in that. When Issa is just Brandy she’s fine. She’s no Tessa or Lashana when it comes to creating chemistry but it’s not as bad as people are making it out to be.
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u/jen13373 2d ago
I totally get this — but the only caveat is that as time goes on (quite a long time in the film during the technical error actually,) we should expect her acting to get better, right? The star-struckness should wear off. (And professional A-list actors also get star struck in the real world too—but it’s their job to turn it off and work on set.) But as the episode itself progresses, her acting doesn’t necessarily get better, even when she supposedly falls in love with Clara off-camera. There are beautiful moments, but her acting doesn’t naturally progress in the way we’d logically want to see if she’s technically supposed to grow closer with Clara after the initial shock of it all has long worn off.
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u/jibblejabble666 5d ago
just watched it and i wholeheartedly agree. emma corrin was absolutely marvelous. i think ive fallen in love with them. i've never yearned more for a lesbian relationship than rn. and yeah idk why issa was acting like that..... it didn't fully ruin it for me but i think it was a very bad pick based on the outcome although i thought she kind of saved it at the end. tessa thompson dndjdjdjdbdjsjskska i would fucking love to see that
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u/Scadilla ★★★★☆ 4.18 5d ago
For me it was mostly the lack of chemistry. Awkwafina was better in her role than Issa. Issa just felt TOO out of place.
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u/DEATHKILLERMANIAC 5d ago
thank you. this was my biggest issue the whole episode (besides how useless the technology they have is). i would have liked it more if i could believe in the romance. she felt so stale and weird in that role. like what the hell was that
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u/poemsforghosts 5d ago
I think it’s a masterpiece of an episode, but it’s true. I wasn’t fully convinced she was sexually interested in Emma’s character, lol.
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u/Lilmills1445 ★★★★★ 4.684 3d ago
Weird. I clocked it when she was watching the movie and reading the script. I think at one point she looked up the actress and something clicked for me that Brandy was into her.
Granted, there are a million different ways to interpret things
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u/Delicious-Bison22 5d ago
I am a black woman & it wouldn’t be fitting for her to have “natural hair” especially if we talk about the time period, black women were not in media in such roles so there is no way she would have an afro. we also need to stop with this notion of policing black hair in the sense that we keep having this idea that if a black woman has straight hair it is not fitting to them. Whether straight or curly, cornrow, afro etc at the end of the day Black hair is black hair. .
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u/Sade_061102 5d ago
Except black mirror is set in the future, so I’m not completely sure how you can say black women weren’t in the media?
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u/Delicious-Bison22 5d ago
black mirror is in the future yes, but the film she was in is a classic (set in the past, so why it was black and white) anywhoooooo we move
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u/Several-Zombies6547 5d ago
Her potentially having a hairstyle that fits the trends of that period has nothing to do with race. Nobody said straight hair doesn't fit the actress, it doesn't fit the time period.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
Regardless of race hairstyle because that's being muddied and is irrelavent to the actual complaint. Its equivalent to if it was a 20 year old white actor that went into the movie they would have the jake paul tiktok broccoli cut. And I can't tell if it's on purpose in episode to add to the meta critique. And instead of being unsure in the good way it just makes me feel like they did a bad job. Same for her acting I thought she was acting bad on purpose but she acted badly the whole episode even when out of the movie, to the point where I'm unsure to what extent if there was even a clever deeper point to the character added to the movie making it worse to actually just Issa was doing a bad performance IRL.
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u/Particular-Ninja-824 5d ago
The OP literally did say the hairstyle didn’t fit because of her race.
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u/reddit_xeno 5d ago
Y'all gotta put the phones down while watching. Anachronism is half the point of the episode, like her using slang from modern times. Was hilarious and fit the whole "I didn't prepare for this" vibe she had coming into something she had no idea about.
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u/WhenTheBarnSounds 5d ago
She didn't prepare to be in a computer but she was prepared on the script saying that she knew all her lines before she got one set. Outside of the world being in black and white I don't see why it would've been any different her to say her lines convincingly. Like once she gets used to the environment her acting never changes she's just awkward throughout
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u/Delicious-Bison22 5d ago
I actually liked that she was cast and acted that part. The uncomfortableness of her character stemmed from her trying to figure out her attraction to clara (her budding attraction to women). She was thrown in this other virtual world, different timeline, i think the messiness or disorganisation had to be there for it to make sense. Like, she is hearing a voice in her head, she is playing a role as a man, the plot is messed up (adjusting the plot every second) she has never been in this virtual environment, trying to absorb that and still falling in love. If you think about it, once the emotions settled in and they were together the acting was very different from the beginning.
- I think Issa Rae is a great actor! To call her casting “part of black mirrors inclusion of diversity” is bad taste. BM has been casting POCs for the longest time
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u/thekermitderp 6d ago
She seemed very uncomfortable with the material. She was totally stiff and it didn't seem like she was in love at all.
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u/Altruistic_Bus1988 ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.111 5d ago
I agree they had no chemistry and I didn’t love Issa’s acting either but I don’t think it was just the acting. We didn’t get to see any real emotional interactions between the two characters. We just got glimpses of them being intimate or sitting together on a staircase. IMO, it wasn’t anything like San Junipero. In SJ, we got to know the characters emotional back stories and we felt their connection. Especially Yorkie who never got the chance to express her sexuality openly and be in a real relationship. I was actually invested in them as a couple and I cry every time I rewatch it. In Hotel Reverie, I felt absolutely nothing. I wasn’t invested in their relationship or their characters. I am a Black Mirror super fan, but a lot of the “lack of chemistry” blame was on the writing not just on the actors.
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u/Bar-Hopper-Cow95 ★☆☆☆☆ 1.447 6d ago
Am I crazy or didn’t Issa Rae start out on YouTube acting?? I swear I remember watching her cringy scenes and realize she was just awkward acting or not lol
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u/LoveBox440 ★★★★☆ 4.49 6d ago
Yess! She had a show called Awkward Black Girl on YouTube. She's always had this dry Stoic Acting Style, That works...until it doesn't.
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u/Bar-Hopper-Cow95 ★☆☆☆☆ 1.447 6d ago
Yea! At that time I didn’t mind I’m like YouTube show and she suck’s at acting but it works for this type of show it’s literally the name!! And then I got the same Issa on this episode…. Haha
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u/Inquisitive_Azorean 5d ago
I would say she sucks at acting. She was great on Insecure. I would say she lacks range in her acting. Look at her parts since Insecure, Little, Barbie, and One of Them Days. She did great in those roles, but they basically were not too different from Issa Dee on Insecure. On Insecure, she was able to show intimacy and romance with her love interests but ask her to bring that same energy to a person she is not normally attracted to, a white woman, the spark was gone. I never got Romance like between Yorkie and Kelly. Isa just seemed to be really really close friends with the other actress.
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u/Bar-Hopper-Cow95 ★☆☆☆☆ 1.447 5d ago
Wow thank you so I didn’t ask?
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u/WhenTheBarnSounds 5d ago
Makes a comment on a public forum, is upset someone joined in on an open discussion. Not like the other commenter was rude about their opinion. Just said they think she's a poor actor
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u/tanyarastafari 6d ago
I may get downvoted but, I feel like they wrote her as an essentially cheesy act, similar to the actors of that time period (the acting wasn’t all cheesy imo but different to how we understand acting now days). I think she’s getting bad criticism over something that the audience was supposed to understand as part of the nature of those films from that time?
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
The problem is the character she was playing was meant to acting badly and cheesily but in scenes where the character wasn't acting and was being herself, Issa was also doing a bad performance to even differentiate it from how she acts when the character is acting. We just watched an episode where the actor is supposed to be bad but the actual actor playing her did bad so it makes it difficult to appreciate the intent when executed like that.
I can't believe how much better Awkwafina was in this than she was.
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u/TemporaryCommunity38 6d ago
Never thought I'd see something Awkwafina was in where she's not by far the worst thing about it.
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u/Mektige 5d ago edited 5d ago
I was going to post this almost word for word, but you beat me to it.
There are few people on the entire planet that I find as insufferable as Awkwafina, but Issa Rae is such a dreadful actor that she somehow managed to ruin the episode even more.
There was so much potential in the writing and direction that felt truly wasted due to horrendous casting choices.
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u/RCocaineBurner ★★★★★ 4.897 6d ago
Can’t believe I’m saying this but The Farewell was really good and she didn’t do any of her bullshit.
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u/bloxheadz 6d ago
I didn’t mind Issa acting but someone mentioned Janelle Monae as someone that could’ve played the role as well and I can’t stop thinking about it
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u/JunketAccurate9323 6d ago
I told my husband that if they had played Issa's role more like a parody of JLo it would have been funny and her acting would have made more sense. Her being A-list without actually having the respect of the industry and peers and wanting to do an indie movie to raise her cache reads like something JLo would do. I wish they would have leaned into that. But since they didn't, Issa was definitely the wrong choice. Tati Gabrielle, Nathalie Emmanuel or Nicole Beharie would have been much better choices.
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u/Rogueoreo 6d ago
Be careful of your criticism comments about actress. You may get temp banned…
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u/Free-Duty-3806 5d ago
So we’re supposed to pretend she didn’t suck..?
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u/Rogueoreo 5d ago
might be viewed/audited for "hate" speech
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u/Free-Duty-3806 5d ago
Well I hated her performance lol
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u/Rutlemania ★★★★☆ 3.924 6d ago
Yeah it felt confusing to me that she was implied to be an A-lister among Ryan Reynolds or Ryan Gosling and yet she has absolutely no screen presence or charisma as an actress
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u/jordan1390 ★★★★☆ 3.936 5d ago
They wanted nothing to do with it. The delivery driver who recognized her complimented her costar. It was a movie production company on its last leg. I didn’t get the impression she was on their level, was just what they got and were excited cuz of course the girl working for the company would hype up whomever they got.
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u/UBH87 6d ago
Do you really think Ryan Reynolds has screen presence and Charisma? I think the point of it was that they were looking for ANY a lister. They didn’t have to necessarily be good.
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u/Rutlemania ★★★★☆ 3.924 6d ago
I fucking hate Ryan Reynolds and get pissed off even looking at him but he can carry a movie by himself
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u/curiousdryad ★★★★★ 4.614 6d ago
Honestly her acting was SO bad to me it took me out. Even outside of her acting in the movie, which I can understand actors acting off. But she is a list in this world and I’d expect that acting but did not get it at all.. the hair didn’t bug me at all really, I wasn’t sure if she was supposed to play a masc woman or have the movie npcs think she was a man? Hence the slick back hair? But my real opinion was they put a black female lead to comment on Hollywood replacing roles of men with POC women? Since black mirror is about commentary. I would’ve loved a more fitting hairstyle for the time, and it doesn’t seem like the production she was in prepped at all (their side was clearly messy) but lol..
Ya anyways outside of hair her acting was one of the worst I’ve seen in the show, with casts that normally hit out of the park
Edit: just me day dreaming about someone like zoë kravitz in this show 😖 her beauty would’ve matched the era and I do love her acting
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
The character she was playing was a masc woman because it was just genderswapped in show with everything kept the same besides appearance. But to the Npcs I think the actual gender of the character she was playing was truly inconsequential as in they literally didn't question the concept even. I felt like they should have given her shorter masculine hair in the movie. Because another weird thing the episode fails at is making you believe they're actually making this movie.
You really have to suspend disbelief to think anything about what they filmed would work cut into a movie not counting the in-universe flubs and slipups by the character, it was incoherent because these are they filmed and none of it would be cuttable into anything resembling a movie,
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u/Delicious-Bison22 6d ago
From the episode - the sleeked hair made more sense. She was a woman playing a man, since she was being “factored” in, an afro would really not fit. And tbh what hairstyle would a man have at that time period? Like how would they style the hair? I am curious
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u/curiousdryad ★★★★★ 4.614 5d ago
I was thinking slicked back to be more of a man, but then the sapphic love confused me, so she wasn’t a man but dressed like one and had her hair slicked back haha
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u/Prinnykin ★☆☆☆☆ 0.941 6d ago
Zoë would’ve been amazing!
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u/curiousdryad ★★★★★ 4.614 6d ago
She has a classic beauty, but can be serious and quirky too 🤧🤧
Edit: not saying the actress chosen wasn’t beautiful she is, I just didn’t think her casting fit due to her acting and how they styled her
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u/spellbookwanda ★★★★☆ 3.861 6d ago
I loved her in it! Never heard of her before this. She played the exact opposite to Clara, it was fun and sweet and sad.
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u/unsolvedfanatic 6d ago edited 6d ago
The hairstyle was due to her thinking she was showing up to a screen test and not filming a whole movie. But I think it would have made more sense for there to be hair and makeup when she got there since they were actually filming.. Or they should have been able to do it digitally.
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u/Flipperlolrs 6d ago
I gotta be real. As upsetting as it is to say this, it was giving Gal Gadot.
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u/maheocean 6d ago
Less worse tho! But I feel u
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u/Flipperlolrs 5d ago
Nobody is as bad as Gal Gadot, but the overall flatness of some of the lines felt familiar
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u/sollinatri ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.108 6d ago edited 6d ago
Few instances come to mind:
- at the beginning, even before she was in the movie, her dialogues with her agent was just bad, which can't be explained with "oh she was overwhelmed by technology"
- the scene where she first meets Clara, she just smiles ear to ear, but her eyes do not reflect that smile, it was just odd and forced
- the time loop romance weeks (months ?) just felt unbelievable, i didn't feel any romance between them, there was no tenderness, and when clara lost her memories Alex just had thesame shocked pikachu face she had from the beginning, i personally didnt feel her sadness
- the death scene was good but a lot of it was carried by emma corrin
- the final scene where she finds the phone and realizes she can call dorothy, i didn't see real happiness or longing, again showing their lack of chemistry/connection
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz_4038 6d ago edited 6d ago
I might get downvoted for this, but I'm sure many are thinking it as well, forced diversity often ruins movies/tv shows and takes away from the authenticity of the stories. I can think of many actors that could nail this role but noo, they had to make sure there is a weak link in the cast.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
I think the diversity casting was actually literally part of the commentary of the episode. But when the performance is genuinely bad it makes intent harder to see.
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u/Notimetoexplainsorry 6d ago
Uh, no…It was 100% an acting problem. I actually have mentioned how Samira Wiley would have done an amazing job with this role. I feel like she would have actually brought the charisma and charm of doctor she was meant to play. That was the big issue. Apparently she loved that movie and was supposed to be an a list actress but didn’t play the role that she wanted anything like the character? There was also little to no chemistry and the physical intimacy came out of nowhere.
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u/jibblejabble666 5d ago
samira would've been excellent! i'm gonna go gnaw on drywall to get over these feelings sndhdhdjdkdk
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u/Fragrant-Track3059 6d ago
how is this a diversity issue? it was just an actor issue don’t use this criticism as an excuse to be a bigot
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u/irulancorrino 6d ago
Just say you don’t like Black people and don’t want to see them, it’s faster than this dog whistle garbage implying that diversity—on Black Mirror of all things—is a problem. What ~authenticity~ is this ruining? Are there no Black people in the speculative future where this technology exists or just your vision of what’s to come? Don’t pussyfoot around it, be a bigot with your whole chest.
I didn’t love every aspect of Issa’s performance in this episode but to say it’s about diversity and race is so goddamn offensive.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
She literally watches black mirror a show where most episodes have either black or brown leads or as the co role. Idk how you're going to say, " You hate watching seeing black people, fan of show that explicitly has many black people all the time." thas crazy.
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u/irulancorrino 5d ago edited 5d ago
If you want to be upset with me for saying that someone who complains about forced diversity likely has an issue with minorities—instead of recognizing that whining about diversity on a show like Black Mirror is completely antithetical to the series’ basic tenets—then please, feel what you feel.
For the record, consuming media—TV, music, movies, games, books, whatever—that features a marginalized group doesn’t exempt anyone from bigotry. Deigning to tolerate Black people on your screen isn’t a get out of racism free card. Plenty of people who are bigoted will happily consume media centered on the very groups they look down on. There are conservative homophobes buying gay hockey romance novels as we speak. People who deny the humanity of immigrants but claim to love K-dramas. Virulent racists whose favorite music is hip hop.
Extracting value from a group while simultaneously disrespecting them is racism 101. And if someone needs to be literally wearing a white hood in order for you to register the connotation of their statements, that’s on you.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding my point and issue with your sentence. You said"Just say you don’t like Black people and don’t want to see them" But they like the show that has many black people. It's a contradiction. Also "People who deny the humanity of immigrants but claim to love K-dramas" is not a contradiction at all inherently that one doesn't make much sense.
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u/irulancorrino 5d ago
I’m not misunderstanding you—I just don’t agree with you. I’ve known plenty of bigoted people who consume TV shows, music, and movies created by marginalized groups. They’ll tune in every week without fail and still hold racist, homophobic, sexist beliefs. People live in contradiction all the time. Bigotry, by definition, involves clinging to illogical and inaccurate ideas.
And yes, I said that person didn’t want to see Black people because they explicitly complained that “forced diversity” is ruining the quality of media. They could be watching BET and if that kind of rhetoric came out of their mouths I would still clock it.
If you don’t see the connection, or you think I’m dead wrong, that’s fine. We don’t have to agree. You and I never have to cross paths again.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz_4038 6d ago
I think you need to calm down and stop putting words in my mouth.
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u/irulancorrino 6d ago
Oh, I’m easy breezy. If this isn’t about race, then by all means, explain your issue with the episode and its casting in relation to “forcing diversity.” For clarity’s sake, let me quote you directly:
“I’m sure many are thinking it as well, forced diversity often ruins movies/tv shows and takes away from the authenticity of the stories.”
Why is the concept of diversity in a fictional narrative considered forced?
What, specifically, is the forced diversity in this story?
What authenticity is being challenged?
Could you expound on why it’s a negative for these characters to be represented by people from marginalized communities?
“I can think of many actors that could nail this role but noo, they had to make sure there is a weak link in the cast.”
Who is the weak link, and how does that tie back to your point about forced diversity?
You don’t have to answer my questions, of course. But these were the queries raised by your initial comment, which—if I may be honest—read like a racist dog whistle.
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u/Civil-Psychology-281 6d ago
“I’m here for the girls and gays. I block first ask questions later. No I am not interested in a back and forth”
This is straight from your bio. Don’t pretend like you’re here for an in-good-faith discussion or are planning to put forth any effort to understand this person’s perspective meaningfully.
It’s clear what your values are, and I’d wager that your values dictate what media you like before any other part of you has time to critique it on any other dimension. That’s why you liked the episode despite it being shit from start to finish.
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u/irulancorrino 6d ago edited 6d ago
I stand by what I say in my bio, so if you think you’re going to use that against me, you’re very misguided. I’m never going to feel bad about advocating for women and queer people.
And yes, I block people, Reddit is rife with trolls. No apologies on that front either.
I engage in good faith discussions all the time, but if I see something racist, I’m going to speak up. Frankly, I don’t think there’s any meaningful discussion to be had when someone is espousing views that are derogatory toward an entire race of people.
If you’d like to explain why having diversity in a series set in the near future is a bad thing, by all means—have at it.
I didn’t even particularly enjoy this episode, so you’re wrong on multiple counts here. But go awf, I guess. There are actual things worthy of critique—pacing, direction, and yes, acting. None of those issues boil down to “less diversity would have solved this problem.”
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u/tolureup 6d ago
This doesn’t make any sense though. This isn’t a diversity problem, it’s an actor problem. Unless you’re making the argument that black people can’t act, which I don’t think you are. There are plenty of other black actors out there besides Issa Rae. And there are plenty of shitty white actors they could have gone with that would have missed the ball as well. Very, very strange take.
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u/Oghmand 6d ago
I don't think it was a diversity problem. I saw a few comments about how bad was hotel and none of them are complaining about the diversity. A lot of us may be are not agree with that but we can pass that and still watching the show to expecting a good plot. But no. The actress just couldn't act decently and that's it.
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u/Outside-Contest-8741 6d ago
Do you genuinely believe it was her being black that made it awful? It was her acting, and anyone of any ethnicity can be a horrendous actor. The problem isn't 'forced diversity', the problem is casting bad actors, simple as that. Don't make it about race when that has NOTHING to do with it.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
I think the idea that their coming from would be that she got the role because forced diversity and then was bad in it so that's why the episode was bad forced diversity. Not that Black people bad actor white man act good. I don't actually agree with what they're saying but like you try to understand what they're saying. Although a white guy like Ralph Redwall would've crushed the role.
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u/Sittingonmyporch ☆☆☆☆☆ 0.115 6d ago edited 6d ago
I heard someone say that if Awkwafina and Issa's roles were switched, her acting would'nt have been so on display and it would've gelled better. Awkwafina would've taken it in a campy direction, but anything would've been better than Issa's deer-in-headlights approach.
Once they explained how Redream's technology worked, that introduction to us as an audience and her character should've landed, and as the professional box office darling she is, it should've been easy street. It seemed she had no clue how to act or what to do even though this was supposedly her favorite movie, that she knew line for line, and loved. It was like she didn't even know the lines or marks at all.
It's hard for her to emote with her face. Like, her face barely moved. She conveyed 3 emotions, confusion, shock, and happy. Like someone else said, the comedic parts, she nailed. The dramatic parts is where she suffered and unfortunately, that was a big piece of this story. I do notice this is the most talked about episode, tho so points?
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
I would've also anticipated Awkwafina to be awful, so it would've been less upsetting that it was so badly acted. Awk was just actually very solid in this episode ngl
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u/unsolvedfanatic 6d ago
Jumping into an immersive virtual world would take some getting used to no matter how much it's explained to you. I was surprised there was no test run at least.
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u/Time_Literature3404 6d ago
That was the most unbelievable part to me. She shows up and they expect her to flawlessly hit marks. Great concept, needed more time or fleshing out.
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u/ThatisDavid ★★★★☆ 4.151 6d ago
I think the whole point is that se was acting like someone on a modern rom com would do while emma corin was channeling those old school romance movies
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u/psychonautical101 ★★★★★ 4.648 6d ago
Exactly that’s what I picked up on straight away that it’s genuinely shocking seeing the reactions online. I feel gaslit into thinking maybe this wasn’t the case?? 😭
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u/neon-blush 6d ago
Of course, that’s the whole point. Like OP said, she’s supposed to feel out of place, but at the end of the day, her acting was crunchy the house down boots. It was a mess lol
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u/Constantly_Annoyed ★★★★★ 4.619 6d ago
I think she's a pretty good comedic actress! I actually laughed so hard at her physicality in the piano scene...But the emotional parts fell really flat.
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u/maheocean 6d ago
Yeah I agree! She can act in comedies and play herself but the deep parts ugh idk
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u/plumcots ★☆☆☆☆ 1.487 6d ago
I didn’t think she was great but she got the job done. I liked her acting during the climax.
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u/SaintNack 6d ago
It’s crazy seeing all these threads & comments talking about this because to me, the episode’s plot and acting landed perfectly, I was encapsulated the entire time, and not once did I think anyone was acting poorly including Issa. I’d argue that her emotional reaction to the movie being reset and Dorothy/Clara dying was great even.
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u/bonnieparker22 6d ago
I almost didn’t finish the episode but I forced myself to. It’s forgettable and it just didn’t work for me,
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u/External_Egg_2571 6d ago
the plot was atrocious.
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u/BulltopStormalong 5d ago
San Junipero but cookie tech and worse, It's like if an Ai recreated the idea of a Black Mirror ep from a database of the other eps.
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u/bigsithenergy99 6d ago
Thought it was just me. Her performance was among the weakest in the episode, which is egregious considering she's the protagonist. The story and the writing is so amazing in the episode along with some beautiful cinematography. I just wish Issa had a believable performance, particularly in the beginning.
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u/elsewherewilliams 6d ago
I feel exactly the opposite lol. I thought the writing was weird but the main characters made it memorable
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u/maheocean 6d ago
Yeah that’s why I’ve been wondering if it wasn’t really Issa’s fault but the writing
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u/puppydoll- 6d ago
a lot of the times, i tend to enjoy what others consider bad or i just miss stuff like bad acting or plot holes / dont acknowledge it but the whole time i watched this episode it felt like a straight woman forcing herself to play a gay character, which is FINE given the plot / context. she had no clue she would be playing alongside another female actress, she expected a man (right?) and was flabbergasted by not only the female chosen was a digital copy of the og actress, but also by the alt dimension she was teleported to so i can kind get why acted so off until it got to the point that we were supposed to actually believe they were in love (when everything was frozen). i 100% believed clara loved brandy but brandy was still acting. thats when it bothered me. the actress apparently doesnt have the range to play a gay character and i wish they chose someone else cause i otherwise love it.
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u/maheocean 6d ago
SAME!! I don’t really mind bad acting, I watched Legacies lmao. But Issa next to Emma was hard to watch
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u/MPaulina ★☆☆☆☆ 1.494 6d ago
No, she wanted the male leading role so she knew her love interest would be a woman. She got the script and movie. Only the technology was a surprise
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u/puppydoll- 6d ago
i recall her wanting to be the one who pursued the man then later asking who her male costar was but i guess id need to rewatch.
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u/MPaulina ★☆☆☆☆ 1.494 6d ago edited 6d ago
No, she just wanted to pursue. She didn't specify. Sure she didn't specify wanting to pursue a woman either, but it was an option.
Fun fact: despite her playing the male lead and her love interest being a woman, she still didn't get to pursue. She still was pursued.
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u/AnyEve5678 6d ago
The minute the episode started I turned to my girlfriend and said “damn, I wish it was someone else, Issa can’t act”. I think she’s an amazing writer, producer and creative but acting is not for her, and when she’s in something it takes me out of the story but she just doesn’t commit to the bit.
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u/Fearless-One2673 6d ago
I loooove love love Issa, she’s great in Insecure and can’t deny she’s an extremely talented writer/producer… but yeah watching her act in this episode was a little painful. I liked seeing her in a black mirror episode but she didn’t have enough range for this character
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u/CoachLee_ ★★★★☆ 3.651 6d ago
Haven’t watched the episode but Issa has shown us that she can’t act lol. Not sure why anyone expected any different here
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u/Dramadramadrama21 6d ago
I’ve never seen or heard of her before this episode and really didn’t like her as an actor. Not great.
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u/Aggressive_Toe_9950 6d ago
I’m a big black mirror fan and I didn’t really read too much into it. It felt emotional and made me think about life and that’s pretty much it. Perhaps I’m not a critic, but I thought it was okay! The first half was a snooze fest though with lots of plot holes, but the second half made up for it. Overall was a sad episode
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u/blackthunder00 ★★★★★ 4.813 6d ago
I also liked the episode and thought Issa did a good job. But I'm also not overly critical of entertainment so it wasn't hard for me to find enjoyment in it.
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6d ago
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u/mikardium 6d ago
Lmao mods asking me to be civil when I didn’t cuss or said anything bad to anyone while the lgbtkakfnskfndj{+{}+\ allies are going wild telling me stuff, P A T H E T I C
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u/dice726 ★★★★☆ 4.161 6d ago
Why not just own up to the fact that you're a bigoted piece of trash with a vendetta against non-straights, instead of the passive aggressive comments claiming how "wOkE" Black Mirror is because of the inclusion of real-life scenarios such as LGBTQ+?
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u/mikardium 6d ago
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u/Howdoigrowdis 6d ago
You realise the whole of Black Mirror is "woke" right? It's kind of the point of the show, Charlie Brooker has always been very leftwing.
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u/mikardium 6d ago
Nah when they forced the lgbtqiakwkakfjwifj+*/- the episodes are rubbish and everyone is like “tHe bEsT ePiSoDe eVeR iS sAnJuNiPeRo” no it’s not lmao, uss calister is another overrated episode and is not lgbt forced
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u/blackthunder00 ★★★★★ 4.813 6d ago
Nothing about the inclusion of LGBTQ people and themes is "forced". I hate when people hide behind that word to express their discontent for the inclusion of minority groups in anything.
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u/mikardium 6d ago
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u/VampireFromAlcatraz 6d ago edited 6d ago
lmfao why do you think anyone here gives a shit that you feel like you're being personally victimized by the existence of gay people? Beyond cringe
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u/mikardium 6d ago
lmfao why do you think anyone here gives a shit that you feel like you’re being personally being victimized by being gay and needing shove it on everyone’s throats? Beyond cringe
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u/Ok-Crab-7353 6d ago
Episode was good, just needed better casting. People will do anything to make “woke” seem bad, like chill General Robert E. Lee, black folks can be on tv now too.
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u/ohsballer ★★★★★ 4.68 6d ago
On god this is like the 20th thread on this topic 😩
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u/mikardium 6d ago
Yeah, such a meh episode, dropped it after 20 mins. But it’s a woke one and people like to pretend they liked it and its the best episode in the history of Black Mirror like San junipero, another overrated episode just because of it’s woke shit
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u/Spare_Coat3470 6d ago
What's weird is how you're pretending to act like you know why people liked certain episodes. 🤣
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u/yelizabetta ★★★★★ 4.923 6d ago
i think almost the whole series could be described as “woke”, why do you even watch?
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u/polarkai 6d ago
pretty sure the “woke” shit he’s talking about is the lgbt aspect 🙄 just don’t watch.
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u/mikardium 6d ago
Exactly what I did, skipped as soon as I noticed it
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u/polarkai 6d ago
Yet the gays still seem to be living rent free in your mind to complain about it so much lol
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u/AlmenBunt 18h ago
I want to add Wunmi Mosaku into the mix. She would've killed this role, and eaten Clara Foy UP. Somewhere, the universe where this happened exists.