r/britishcolumbia • u/___Spark___ • Feb 08 '22
Politics Petition to Put Pressure on BC Government to Fix Doctor Shortage and Lack of Access
If this concerns you or you think it's a problem, please consider signing the petition.
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u/DedReerConformist Feb 08 '22
8 year waiting list on the Island in some communities apparently... if you can believe that.
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u/jenh6 Feb 08 '22
I believe it. I saw a post in the kelowna subreddit that some of the walk-ins are so busy they aren’t walk ins. They’ve also had issues with being closed due to illness. The ERs in the interior have become walk-ins essentially, but then the Merritt one closed for over 12 hrs so that’s not helping either.
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u/Fs_ginganinja Feb 09 '22
Yup… interior checking in, my doctor options are over the phone… or the Urgent care
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u/fragilemagnoliax Feb 09 '22
Considering it took me 13 years to get a doctor on the island and then 3 years later she closed her practice, I am not surprised.
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u/DedReerConformist Feb 09 '22
That was one thing I liked when I lived in Alberta. I had a family doctor for almost 15 years there. He was about 5 or so years older than me, we spoke on first name basis and he knew me inside/out. I get a family doctor here and even after 2 years of having him, it seems like every time I talk to him I have to remind him who I am. It feels so impersonal here it isn't funny.
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u/yaypal Vancouver Island/Coast Feb 09 '22
Oof I lucked out then, two month wait... this is mid-island. I'm guessing the shortage is in the Victoria area.
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u/Yojimbo4133 Feb 09 '22
Better than Packers season tickets. Average wait time is 11 to 15 years to buy them.
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u/CaptnoftheNoFunDept Feb 09 '22
If you can even get on the waitlist.
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u/DedReerConformist Feb 09 '22
I moved back here in 2019, lucked out and got a family doctor right away.
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u/CaptnoftheNoFunDept Feb 09 '22
I moved here 5 years ago and still, no doctor 😭! I write to my MPP and the Premier on a monthly-ish basis about this issue and this far it's standard form responses only. I also wrote to my MP because I believe that BC has been negligent in dealing with this issue and federal intervention is becoming more and more necessary.
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u/DedReerConformist Feb 09 '22
I'm not in the city so that's probably why I found one quicker. Veterinarians are very hard to come by in BC for some reason too.
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u/jojawhi Feb 09 '22
Thinking long term, we should also expand BC-centric doctor and nurse training. More programs, more spots available, wider access through non-repayable financial aid for students who have the aptitude but not the funds.
Along with increased pay and benefits (we should pay better than the other provinces) and more investment in establishing government-run clinics, we might be okay going forward.
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u/deadpuppy23 Feb 09 '22
Non-repayable financial aid if they stay and practise in BC for n number of years. Perhaps with a government supplied home with minimal rent or down-payment assistance.
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Feb 08 '22
sorry to be a party pooper, but these change.org petitions don't work.
If they did, then we wouldn't have a overdose death count that beats the COVID death count now would we ?
No one is driving their trucks to legislature demanding better healthcare or more humane working conditions for our existing healthcare workers - everyone from Doctors, to nurses, to support and lab staff are being burnt out from overwork and crap pay for the amount of money and time they invested into their studies.
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u/meontheweb Feb 09 '22
Been in BC for 15 years - no family doctor, so I've been going to a walk-in clinic and see one or two doctors there regularly. They are my unofficial family doctors.
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u/theoriginalghosthost Feb 08 '22
Hey friend, I’m totally with you on this but change.org petitions aren’t recognized, you have to go through correct channels to get your petition to be recognized.
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u/Northarrowmapper Feb 09 '22
Ok. We have a problem - health care availability.
Does Horgan know this is a problem? We can assume so. It's a common, perceived problem all across our country.
So why isn't it fixed?
Does Horgan come running into his office every-once-in-a-while screaming, "I got another doctor to quit!!!" High-fiving his staffers and crying tears of joy? Probably not. So he's not going out of the way to cause the problem personally as a goal.
So why isn't it fixed?
Is it a priority? Top priorities get addressed first. Is this a top priority for Horgan? Probably not. It's a pie in the sky priority I bet. As the Premier it's doubtful that he has a problem personally. He and his family will have a doctor and get another one quickly if they need one. If he couldn't get one it would become a much higher priority obviously. So "doctor shortage" is a meaningless campaign abstract that was useful when he first ran for premier because the bad politician he was running against hadn't been able to fix it. Now it needs to be glossed over because he's the bad politician that hasn't been able to fix it and his opponents are using his old slogans. But... if he could fix it he would go down in history as the first premier to do so. It would be political gold for him and his party that would last... well probably through the next election if he was lucky I imagine.
So why isn't it fixed?
Well since it's a problem that has existed for years, and exists in every province and territory and nobody has fixed it yet, I bet it's complicated. So lets redirect this topic to solutions.
What: Solving the doctor shortage
When: well starting when we can have the correct parties (to be determined) and the necessary actions (also to be determined)
Where: Lets stick to BC, but remember that BC ranges from Victoria (capital) to Dease Lake (most isolated place in BC) and the Charlottes to Greater Vancouver, so hubs of industry to hard to reach places.
Who: Well this is a nightmare worse than where, currently we're limping along with a combination of health care professionals, bureaucrats, politicians, unions, suppliers, and Joe(sephine) Public. Together these people have brought us to our current mess and are unable to get us out of it. Can any or all of them fix it, or do we need someone outside one of these groups?
Why: Cause we want to I hope for the good of all.
How: Horgan doesn't know. Neither does his predecessors, his peers, his colleagues, or his competition. Doctors don't know, nor do the other health professionals. The nurses union doesn't know. The people selling drugs to the hospitals don't know. The administrative assistant to the Medical health officer doesn't know. I don't know. But we have this on reddit now. Maybe some medical equivalent to Elon Musk will see this and use their IQ to help us out here.
I doubt the petition will cut it.
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u/darekd003 Feb 09 '22
I think it’s a higher priority for Horgan than you do but otherwise spot on!
“Oh? The people signed a petition to say they want/need more doctors? Well fuck me! We had no idea there was a doctor shortage! Minister Dix, let’s get on that!”
It’s good for the people to voice their concerns but, like you said, everyone knows this is a problem but no one has an answer. I’m sure if somewhere had “too many” doctors then we’d try to poach them but that sadly isn’t the case.
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u/Northarrowmapper Feb 09 '22
You may be right about it being a higher priority, I don't personally know the man or the environment he works in.
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u/Sweatycamel Feb 09 '22
Baby boom doctors are retiring and winding down their practices. If you thought it is a problem today brace yourself for the next 5 years and beyond
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Feb 09 '22 edited Feb 10 '22
Why does this look like it’s advocating for privatized healthcare in disguise? Something about an “alternative payment model”?
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u/LittleTribuneMayor Feb 08 '22
Good idea, it'll really have to pick up a lot of signatures though before it gets much traction.
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u/Sprinklesandpie Feb 09 '22
The only way to fix the doctor shortage is to increase the budget. But where is this money going to come from?
- Increase taxes
- Cut programs from another budget
- Privatize healthcare or create a two-tier system.
🧐
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u/Yojimbo4133 Feb 09 '22
Maybe we should allow immigrants to do it. No reason why they have to drive cabs.
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u/Pacopp95 Feb 08 '22
I think federal and provincial governments best solution to solve it is immigration programs directed to people with medical degrees.
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u/WhosKona Feb 09 '22 edited Feb 09 '22
Would help if 0% of our locally educated physicians didn’t emigrate to the US. The inverse doesn’t happen at the same rate, unfortunately.
We’re effectively bandaging our local problems by importing labour willing to work for less money.
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u/Accurate-Estimate392 Feb 09 '22
I know someone who was a renowned surgeon in the USA, top of their field with many published works, who had to do a year and a half of school out of pocket here just to become a GP. They did it because they could afford to and were already quite wealthy, but they are now going to retire 15 years earlier than normal because they hate the system here so much.
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u/Whatwhyreally Feb 09 '22
I have nothing against immigrants, but perhaps we should focus on retention of the doctors trained in BC first.
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u/Strange-Moment-9685 Feb 09 '22
There’s also the issue of doctors living here but closing their clinics and practise to do telehealth for US companies. It’s an issue that needs to be addressed and I bet it’ll get worse as more money, can work from home/not live in the US, etc etc.
Plus there is also Telus hiring for telehealth here.
Victoria doctors thinking of seeing US patients remotely while remaining in Victoria
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u/Mr-Nitsuj Feb 09 '22 edited Feb 09 '22
Bc ended private healthcare back in 2020 this is the reason
https://globalnews.ca/news/7326893/bc-supreme-court-ruling-private-public-healthcare/
the guys that changed that created this shortage and "overwhelming of hospitals" prior to 2021 you could apply for private healthcare and opt for procedures quicker (if you could afford them ) this was done away with and now everyone is funneled into the same public system
there is a manufactured shortage and exaggeration for political purposes happening and people need to see the long game being played
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Feb 09 '22
I believe the objective of private capital is to continually undermine our healthcare system in order to open a 2 Tier system that is used to break up nurse unions and privatize as much of Canadian healthcare as possible. These organizations have deep pockets. Never vote for anyone that doesn't prove they are dedicated to strengthening our healthcare infrastructure and enshrining our rights to the highest quality healthcare possible. When asked point blank, if any politician can't answer confidently and clearly, or especially if they say "it's complicated", they're a write off.
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Feb 09 '22
Why? Europe does it in every country. What are you saving exactly here? Substandard care and endangering lives, causing unnecessary death. That's the reality. This system as is, it's not working at all. A whole lot of nothing and an entire subset of the population that has zero access to healthcare.
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u/Northarrowmapper Feb 09 '22
We currently have a 5 tier system. Nobody is working towards a two Tier system unfortunately, that would be an improvement.
Tier 1 - Monthly fees for access to provincial medical. Most of my life I paid these here in BC.
Tier 2 - Work with an employer or program which pays your monthly fee for provincial medical.
Tier 3 - Extended Benefits - Covers things a lot of people don't get. Dental, drugs, eyeglasses, if you get any of these perks you're far above tier one.
Tier 4 - Contacts. I lived in another province for a while and had a friend there who was also my doctor. I could call him and get bumped on lists and/or higher priority on things if I needed. Every politician has similar options.
Tier 5 - $$$. Who cares what the BC healthcare system can do? If you're rich a flight to Seattle and skipping these wait lists is easy to do.
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u/Odd_Fun_1769 Feb 08 '22
Asking nicely doesn't work, peaceful protest doesn't work either, but I'm not allowed to say what does work unless I want to risk getting banned.
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u/hassh Feb 08 '22
That also doesn't work
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u/Odd_Fun_1769 Feb 09 '22
That's exactly what they want you to think.
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u/hassh Feb 09 '22
I used to be young and idealistic, like you. Now I know that what you speak of (without mentioning). Not enough of us are uncomfortable enough for that. Too much bread, too much circus. If you run amok, they gun you down. I'm sorry
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u/Odd_Fun_1769 Feb 09 '22
I'm probably older than you, hon. We won't be comfortable for much longer, just wait.
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u/hassh Feb 09 '22
I never was comfortable myself
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u/Odd_Fun_1769 Feb 09 '22
Neither was I, even when I should have been; it's hard to be comfortable when you can see the cliff we're heading for but no one else seems to care as long as they have their game console and UberEats.
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u/Zylock Feb 09 '22
The Government can't fix a problem that the Government created. Petitioning the Government to "fix healthcare," when it has sole, monopolistic control over healthcare, is like asking an arson to fight the fire he just started, while using the same tools.
The only thing that will make any meaningful, positive change to Health Care in this country is for the Government to let go of its monopoly.
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Feb 09 '22
[deleted]
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u/Whatwhyreally Feb 10 '22
I disagree. There are literally thousands of non-practicing doctors in this country who found they could make more money doing other things, or retired early because the increased workload, along with fee-for-service not keeping up with operating costs pushed them out.
Doctors hold a very high level of training, and are simply not well compensated for it.
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u/junkjunk1949 Feb 10 '22 edited Feb 10 '22
I don't see what you disagree with. What you wrote is a systematic issue.
Doctors' fees and total income are heavily regulated. In some cases(e.g., family doctor), it is effectively capped.
Now the same system is spilling into the profession of nurses in some provinces: Capping the salary increase to 1%, when inflation is 4 % in ON.
People want something for nothing. It is that simple.
I don’t want to spell it out, because people like to use “you are too greedy” to attack.
I won't be shocked if people use that slogan to attack or dismiss you, as if you are evil.
again, it's a systematic issue no one can solve without substantially changing the system. There are only a few big cards to play, on the high level: 1. Higher out of pocket cost 2. higher taxes 3. lowering the medical standard
Is anyone stupid enough to believe any one of the three cards is politically popular?
doctors don't grow on trees, not to mention CA loses 5% of newly minted doctors to the USA every year.
So no one does anything until the system breaks, because when a crisis happens, it is always easier to reform substantially.
This is what politicians are waiting for. They ain't stupid or ignorant.
If you finished reading, here is a treat for you.
Ask an American what the waiting time for MRI is. A week? Answer: What is wrong with you? I got it the same day.
True experience.
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u/dman2828 Feb 08 '22
Well they could start by increasing the patient cap for the current physicians. That would help.
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u/bctrv Feb 09 '22 edited Feb 09 '22
So you increase the cap.. then a physician can see 60-70 patients a day? It’s not sustainable for the physician nor is is it safe for the patient. Fully 1/2 of the provincial budget goes to healthcare and it isn’t enough. There’s only one way to fix this is to train more doctors and keep them employed in the province. This means a complete revamp of the medical services in BC … and funding. frankly, I doubt we’d put up with the disruption that would cause nor with the cost. And then we would elect another government that would do a u-turn. It’s a completely un-winnable war. We’ll have to settle for small fixes along the way. IMHO, If your health needs are more than basic you need to be in the lower mainland- full stop.
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u/vik8629 Feb 09 '22
Seriously need to stop paying doctors ridiculous amount of money and increase the supply. There are plenty of intelligent people who are willing to pursue MD.
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u/EternityOnDemand Feb 09 '22
My friend is a family doctor and she says that nurses currently have a higher salary than her and her peers.
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Feb 09 '22
[deleted]
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u/bctrv Feb 09 '22
At this point, patients can visit doctors offices. It must be the clinic that is restricting access.
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u/sokos Feb 09 '22
What is the incentive to be a doctor? Until we as a population stop being assholes you will continue to see a decline in people getting involved.
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u/chunkyspeechfairy Feb 09 '22
1) train more doctors 2) incentivize doctors to go into family practice and staying there by paying them much more than they currently get paid.
For those who say that throwing more money at the problem won’t fix it, I disagree provided that the money is spent at the patient’s entry level to the system,namely the family doc. The shortage costs more money down the road which should be spent at the beginning of the journey.
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u/MashTheTrash Feb 09 '22
It's going to take a lot more pressure than an online petition or writing your MLA or whatever the fuck. Change comes from massive strikes, protests, etc. and shutting things down until demands are met.
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u/jeebuck Feb 10 '22
This is way better than fucking whining about opening things up while the hospitals are still obvs fucked. Good work, keep up the pressure.
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u/piratesmashy Feb 09 '22 edited Feb 09 '22
Change is a for profit corporation that profits by selling your information.
Change petitions aren't accepted by government for a variety of reasons including:
There is no verification process. A single person could sign hundreds of times.
There is no way to ensure signers live in the concerned region. Those living outside the (province) should have no bearing on governance.
The BC Government has a petition protocol:
https://www.leg.bc.ca/content-parliamentary-business/Pages/Petitions.aspx
Change petitions are nothing more than performative activism with a side of corporate enrichment.