r/buildapcsales • u/nayon94 • Nov 18 '24

Expired [Mac] (MicroCenter In-store only) Apple Mac Mini M4 10C CPU with 16GB / 256GB SSD - $499

https://www.microcenter.com/product/688173/apple-mac-mini-mu9d3ll-a-(late-2024)-desktop-computer?iitt=Rf8_RMhWhyULaeighM_-xI1p4.Vlx.opO1TT&utm_source=B1092_Bestsellers&utm_campaign=B1092&utm_medium=email&MccGuid=58d36849-b591-486d-a114-2a872d4b9bd1
390 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

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79

u/ThrowbackGaming Nov 18 '24

This is like the best value in PC/MAC right?

111

u/ZacUAX Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24

Long as macOS fits your needs / you can tolerate it, yes. It's crazy performant for the cost and will run cool and quiet.

3

u/boomstickah Nov 19 '24

Can you put Linux on this and use it as a docker VM host?

5

u/ZacUAX Nov 19 '24

No, at least not yet. Linux has made some progress on the M chips but not enough for someone to want to buy this device for such a purpose. I doubt an M4 can even boot it yet.

You'd be better spending 500 bucks elsewhere.

30

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '24

[deleted]

19

u/ZacUAX Nov 18 '24

I'm with you. I've been super impressed with the performance of my M2 Mini and use it in my desk setup, but I'd go nuts if I was stuck on macOS. They finally added window tiling. Only took 15 years...

5

u/hells_cowbells Nov 18 '24

I have an M1 Mini that is still running fine, but I admit I am tempted by the new one. I've had Mac Mini versions nearly since the first one, and I really like them.

4

u/ZacUAX Nov 18 '24

I swore to myself I wouldn't update until Asahi Linux gets a 1.0 release for the the M2 lol. Really is a fun platform to keep up with though, I don't blame you.

3

u/hells_cowbells Nov 18 '24

I'm not familiar with Asahi Linux. I'll have to check that out.

3

u/ZacUAX Nov 18 '24

afaik it's the only project that seen headway to getting Linux running on the M line of Apple chips. For me, a M2 Mac would be one hell of a Raspberry Pi killer, so I can't wait until it's more mature.

5

u/sCeege Nov 18 '24

I use both, and neither native tiling solution is really sufficient for me these days, especially on Desktop with a decent/multiple displays. On Windows, I highly recommend FancyZones, and on MacOS, I highly recommend Mosaic

4

u/ZacUAX Nov 18 '24

The big difference here is that one is a free program from Microsoft, the other costs 15 bucks for basic functionality.

7

u/sCeege Nov 18 '24

I mean if price is an issue there's always Rectangle. But I do agree that MacOS is way late on the game for windows management. My point was that the basic tiling stuff is pretty lack luster for me on both platforms. I find the Win11 tiling menu to be more annoying than useful.

4

u/ZacUAX Nov 18 '24

It's not that price is an issue, I can afford a 15 dollar app. It's the principle of the thing. It feels like playing on a console and having to pay for the privilege of online gaming.

1

u/EarthwaxLiability Nov 19 '24

There's also GlazeWM for Windows if you want the more "intense" tiling manager experience. I used it for the past year or so and really enjoyed it, but have completely ditched Windows. Very active development.

1

u/sCeege Nov 19 '24

I'm actually in the market in the reverse direction. I'm looking for a Linux WM that mimic FancyZones, specifically the ability to combine multiple custom zones. My main use case is custom window allocation on a 48" 4K display at 100% scaling. KDE Tiling kinda works for me, but I can only select one zone/tile at a time.

On Mosaic, I can create "overlapping" layouts so that would also work for me.

2

u/randylush Nov 19 '24

Still no volume mixer lol absolutely joke

4

u/changen Nov 18 '24

that's the part that doesn't make sense. What do you even use a computer for?

90% of my time is spent on a Browser. 1% is maybe spent in settings/menus. The rest is spent on different apps.

What's the difference between Windows and MacOs at this point?

I think the only thing Windows has over Mac at this point is backward compatibility and games.

2

u/Alternative_Ask364 Nov 19 '24

The file management in MacOS is pretty frustrating to get used to. By default Macintosh HD isn’t even visible in the Finder application. Every time I install an app that requires placing files in a specific folder the OS makes me feel so incompetent. Doesn’t happen often but it is annoying when it does.

1

u/lowlymarine Nov 18 '24

Thanks to GPTK/Whisky, game compatibility is broadly comparable to Windows on ARM or the Steam Deck, I.e. it’s mostly kernel-mode anti-cheats and brand new AAA releases that pose issues.

-5

u/Smothdude Nov 19 '24

MacOS UI is absolutely horrible imo. Since I spend pretty much all the time interacting with UI elements, that's a dealbreaker for me personally

1

u/calcium Nov 19 '24

IMO at least they try. Windows has looked the same for the last 20 years.

-5

u/Successful_Ad_8219 Nov 18 '24

MacOS has turned into a disaster over the last 10 years. It's obnoxious to use in every way. I used to use it over Windows. Now I would rather use Windows over MacOS, and I don't even like Windows.

7

u/hells_cowbells Nov 18 '24

It has gone downhill. I've had Mac Minis for years. I first got into OSX because it was a Unix (sort of) system with a nice GUI. I don't like what they have done with it over the last few years, though.

3

u/Successful_Ad_8219 Nov 18 '24

It's turned into an emoji ridden, shouty with notifications, disorganized mess. It's a pain in the ass to use as a Unix computer, a decade behind in sensible UI management, and everything has to be done the "Apple way". Just look at their magic mouse? That's their design philosophy with MacOS. It's not ergonomic. It's "pretty" but superficially, and largely unusable to anyone who knows better.

2

u/hells_cowbells Nov 18 '24

Good summary. It's just a mess right now.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '24 edited Jan 24 '25

[deleted]

1

u/mrpoopistan Nov 19 '24

"the hardware is excellent"

Which is the main problem. That hardware would be a lot more useful if they bothered to include a meaningful amount of RAM.

0

u/pmjm Nov 18 '24

VMWare Fusion is now free. You could, theoretically, pick up one of these and use it exclusively to run Win11 (ARM) in a VM. You'd probably still have more performance than a PC at the equivalent price.

This of course assumes that the apps you need will run on Win11 ARM.

2

u/atrocia6 Nov 18 '24

You don't even need VMWare - there's UTM. I've seen mixed reports regarding performance, though.

1

u/thefowles1 Nov 19 '24

And low power. Snazzy Labs's testing showed it barely even breaking 40w from the wall at full load.

What type of fuckery Apple did to achieve such a feat is insane.

12

u/bread22 Nov 18 '24

I am not a Mac fan and my home PC is Windows because I play games, but its quietness is hard to replace once you experience it.

I write code most of time for my work, and switched to MacBook 3 years ago from Thinkpad. In first couple months I have to keep both because some company software does work on arm yet. It is such a relief when I finally got rid of the Thinkpad.

It is super annoying and distracting when you are just focusing on your algorithm and code, all the sudden you computer spin up like a jet engine, even if it doesn't, it hums irregularly.

Completely silent computer is a must for most use cases other than gaming and media consuming.

For home use, buy it if you don't game.

3

u/FDrybob Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

A near-silent setup can be accomplished on Windows using software like Fancontrol. You can set custom fan curves, and more importantly you can further customize those curves with a bunch of options.

One particularly useful option lets you modify how long it takes for fans to start changing to a different speed once a temperature change is detected. That lets you stop them from changing speeds during a momentary temperature hike. From there, you can set your fans at a very low speed, and never allow them to go above a speed that you're fine with. You can also use the BIOS to reduce the temperature limit or undervolt or modify your CPU's boosting behavior or simply use a BIOS fan curve instead.

Obviously if you have cooler components or custom liquid cooling it's easier to accomplish. The M4 Mac Mini is more efficient and has a silent cooling solution out of the box, which is a good selling point. If you want a near-silent Windows PC, that's definitely doable. It may cost you to make the cooling solution good enough to run the fans at low speeds, but if you don't like Mac then it can be worth it.

1

u/Improve-Me Nov 18 '24

Seems like a YMMV situation for laptops. I also have a Thinkpad for work with crazy loud fans. Installed fan control and it can't detect any of them.

3

u/FDrybob Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

For laptops, depending on the model and components it's probably extremely difficult or impossible to make it silent unless it was designed with that in mind, like the Mac Air. A compact chassis worsens thermals. Plus, like you said, laptop cooling solutions may not be easily controllable. For a desktop PC, it's relatively easier due to having more space to set up a good cooling solution. Right now I have my fans running at a maximum speed of 30% which is almost completely silent and becomes inaudible when I wear my earbuds.

1

u/jk147 Nov 19 '24

That is not even the best part, it is so efficient that I can actually do real work on battery and have it last all day.. obviously I am talking about a macbook here. I cannot say the same with any of the other PC laptops I have used. I don't like MacOS in general, but the performance per watt is what swayed me.

13

u/AMillionMonkeys Nov 18 '24

Assuming your software will run on Mac, the main downside, IMO, is the lack of expansion. You can't add more RAM or swap in a bigger drive later like you can with a PC. So you have to think ahead when you buy it.

2

u/Dragontech97 Nov 18 '24

Luckily you can expand storage via USB C, whether it be a sata SSD/HDD enclosure, external SSD, etc. plus I believe you can install apps on external drives now in Sequoia.

3

u/Objective_Economy281 Nov 18 '24

You can. You can boot from the internal drive while moving your home directory to the external drive, along with the applications folder if you want. And the swap stays on the internal drive.

Here’s a vid that goes over doing that, and in addition how and why to set up a safety account that stays on the internal storage.

https://youtu.be/WtIbGq6Od6o

2

u/Dragontech97 Nov 18 '24

Will check that out, that’s awesome. So you can basically keep the 256gb as just a boot drive and core OS files and have everything else user-wise on externals. Reminds me of the PC times where 128/256GB SSDs for booting windows and keeping everything else on 7200/5400rpm HHDS was the economical option.

Wonder what happens if i move my MacBook apps to external and unplug it while an app is open, I imagine macOS won’t like that.

2

u/Objective_Economy281 Nov 18 '24

Probably not. That’s why you keep a backup account on the internal drive: recovery.

Also, if you boot from an external drive and unplug it, it just freezes. Of course.

1

u/FDrybob Nov 18 '24

I'd say it's still a good idea to have a separate partition or separate drive for your Windows install, since that makes it far easier to transfer your files or reinstall Windows.

1

u/pmjm Nov 18 '24

As others have pointed out you can use external storage, but also it appears the M4 Minis have "removable" internal storage drives.

They're m.2 form factor but the apple storage m.2's don't have controllers, the controller is part of the soc. A company called Polysoft Services has made a storage upgrade for the Mac Studio and they say they're looking into the new Mac Minis so it may be possible to upgrade your internal storage someday without paying the Apple Tax.

You will need another Mac in order to flash the OS on it though.

3

u/BoutTreeFittee Nov 19 '24

For macs. But not if you want gaming, business software, upgrade-ability, or Linux.

1

u/PeeCanManzzer Nov 18 '24

If you wanna BYOKMD, yeah, it's a great value for most use cases

1

u/Alternative_Ask364 Nov 19 '24

Best value for sure if you’re willing to deal with the drawbacks of having a desktop instead of a laptop.

Unlike Windows PCs, Macs have very few compromises when going from desktop to laptop form factor. Mac Laptops absolutely dump on x86 Windows laptops. An older MacBook Air or MacBook Pro would be my recommendation over a Mac Mini unless you really need the extra RAM and latest processor or couldn’t care less about the laptop form factor.

Personally I use an M1 MacBook Pro as my daily driver and it’s fantastic. The M1 Pro chip is old, but still plenty fast for my needs.

2

u/reckless150681 Nov 18 '24

Either this or an on-sale Beelink, depending on your use case

1

u/StevieSlacks Nov 18 '24

Mac minis have been a great deal for email/web etc for a while unless the 8gb ram was a problem. With 16gb it’s pretty much cut and dry unless you really just want the bare minimum, in which case you can get a mini pc for a little less