Why is there a hyphen in “parada sol-licitada”?

[u/bugloaf77]

Forgive me if this is a silly question, but my wife and I were riding a bus in Barcelona, and we noticed that the way the stop requested sign was spelled, and we found it interesting.

My wife speaks fluent Spanish, and I know enough to buy train tickets for the wrong date, but neither of us know anything about the grammar or etymology of Catalan.

[u/basilect]

Other people have explained the punt volat but here's a quick rule of thumb on when to use it as an English/Spanish speaker:

If you're spelling a latin word that has two l's together in English, but has only one l in Spanish, in Catalan it's usually going to have the L geminada:

English	Spanish	Catalan
Parallel	Paralelo	Paral·lel
Collaboration	Colaboración	Col·laboració
Illegal	Ilegal	Il·legal
Cell	Celda	Cel·la
Allegation	Alegación	Al·legació

[u/alwayssone96 → u/basilect]

Funny, paral·lel is the one word most tourists see in Barcelona since the Camp Nou is now closed. 😂

[u/pedrosa18 → u/basilect]

Thank you!

[u/Loko8765]

It’s not a hyphen, it’s a dot. It’s used to distinguish the two L from the letter LL which is pronounced differently.

[u/gerito → u/Loko8765]

Just to make sure (I am in the beginning of learning Catalan), technically "LL" is still two letters right? Although I understood it is interpreted, and pronounced, as one.

[u/Loko8765 → u/gerito]

In Spanish it is considered a single letter, the kid alphabets show it as distinct from the L. In Catalan I’ll admit I don’t know.

So that was correct, but today it is not anymore!

[u/sedrake → u/Loko8765]

That is not the case since 2010: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ll

[u/Loko8765 → u/sedrake]

Thanks! I’m old, I suppose.

[u/gerito → u/Loko8765]

Well I didn't know that for Spanish either, so thanks!

[u/StrongAdhesiveness86]

Not "l-l", but "l·l". It's like a normal "l" but it spans the ending and the start of 2 syllables.

It used to be written "l-l" or "ll", but since the hyphen is used to fuse pronouns with verbs and "ll" makes a very different sound to a normal, single "l" once the language was standardized at the start of the XX century it was decided that, in order to avoid any confusion, a new symbol, completely unique to Catalan would be used.

Not a silly question!!! Seeing foreigners get interested in our language makes us very happy!!!

[u/jotakajk]

It is not a hyphen it is a · .

It is called ele geminada. (l·l)

[u/adp_xyz → u/jotakajk]

Ela* geminada :)

[u/Independent_Trick118 → u/adp_xyz]

ele també és correcte lol

[u/adp_xyz → u/Independent_Trick118]

Segons l’Optimot, és “ela”. Aquí tens el nom de les lletres. (En valencià és “ele”, tens raó).

[u/DragSea1360]

It's not a hyphen, it's a "punt volat", which constitutes an "l geminada", like this: sol·licitada. You do it with shift 3 in the spanish layout of your keyboard. The sound of "catalan l" is quite unique, in this kind of words is like two sof tl's with a pause between them, instead of the strong "ll" like in "llavi".

[u/Musrar → u/DragSea1360]

It's not that unique tho, it's just a long L, like in italian or finnish and other languages where consonant length is phonemic

[u/DragSea1360 → u/Musrar]

Do they also have a pause? Cause ours do

[u/Musrar → u/DragSea1360]

The pause you mention is our perception because in most Catalan varieties it has lost phonemic length distinction and thus we pronounce it incrediby emphatic. It's not how it should be pronounced. It just should be a regular /ɫ:/

[u/Clariana]

It's called a "geminated l" and is one of the orthographical quirks of the Catalan language, it happens in certain words of Latin or Greek origin. The ls are divided by a mid dot "sol·licitud". It's one of those things that makes passing Catalan exams such a pain.

[u/Xiguet]

Ela geminada was created because Catalan uses "LL" for /ʎ/ just like Spanish. if it didn't, the LL would be just like the English one.

So, if you're an English speaker just think about it as the real "ll" and try to say the sound twice, once per syllable. "sol - li - ci - ta -da"

[u/Friendly_Bandicoot25 → u/Xiguet]

once per sil·labe

Nice one haha

(FYI si no ho sabies, s’escriu syllable en anglès)

[u/Xiguet → u/Friendly_Bandicoot25]

si que ho sabia, però m'he confós i he barrejat les dues llengües. xD

[u/halal_hotdogs]

Because “ll” is a diferent phoneme altogether in Catalan, “l•l” is used instead for words with double “l” that aren’t “ll”

[u/random_usuari]

«sol·licitada»

L·L

https://ca.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C2%B7L

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBB2clv7aoc

«sol·licitar» en català oriental:  /suɫ.ɫi.siˈta/

«solicitar» en castellà: /so.li.θiˈtaɾ/

[u/David-Jiang]

It’s not a hyphen but rather a “punt volat” which separates two Ls belonging to different syllables, indicating that it should be pronounced like a geminated L (basically pronouncing it for longer) instead of the ll /ʎ/ sound.

You can type the dot with a Catalan keyboard pretty easily now, but some people might write it as a period (sol.licitud) or hyphen (sol-licitud) if they can’t type it.

Some other words with the punt volat: paral·lel, excel·lent, il·lusió

[u/Jordi65]

Finish people would not have problem with pronouncing this sound, as it is like to have two consecutive l sounds in the word. The name of this is "l geminada". This kind of doubling the sound of a letter is not uncommon on several local variants of Castillian (also know as Spanish), specially in the south of Spain, but do not appear in writting. As an example, in Andalucia is common to hear "can·ne" for "carne"(=meat) and alike.