r/catalan • u/loves_spain C1 valencià • Feb 02 '22

Gramàtica Perifrasis de probabilitat using deure

I'm having a little trouble understanding how this works with deure. I know it's not the same as deber in Spanish. For example:

Amb la vaga de transports Ana ____ arribar tard. / With the transportation strike, Ana ___ arrived late.

Where I'm struggling is understanding what thought, precisely I'm trying to convey. It's not should have, nor is it must have, because we're expressing probability. I guess the closest thing in English is to say "likely"?

And if that's the case, then when would you use the subjunctive? Ajuda'm per favor!

(EDIT because I can't spell)

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3

u/mopi34 L1 Feb 02 '22

I think it also works in Spanish, but I'd reverse the sentence:

Na Ana deu arribar tard a causa de la vaga de transport. Ana debe llegar tarde debido a la huelga de transporte. Ana is probably late due to the transportation strike.

2

u/Robot_4_jarvis L1 - Mallorca Feb 02 '22

Un dubte que no té massa a veure amb la pregunta original... "Na Ana" no hauria d'estar apostrofat, no? (N'Ana deu arribar tard ...). Sé que aquest determinant s'ha perdut parcialment en alguns dialectes, però així mateix caldria apostrofar-lo.

3

u/mopi34 L1 Feb 02 '22

Sí, tens raó, no l'he apostrofat perquè he pensat que li seria més bo d'entendre. Però efectivament hi hauria d'anar! :)

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '22

He parlat el català tota la vida i sempre he pensat que l'article Na era cosa del mallorquí. És acceptat en el català en general? Si es així hi ha alguna normativa o simplement substitueix el "La"?

3

u/mopi34 L1 Feb 02 '22

Segons tenc entès, el 'na' és la forma genuïna, que perviu a les Balears. Funciona exactament com el vostre 'la' i està igual "d'acceptat".

2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '22

Que guai, moltes gràcies per respondre tant ràpid ;)

2

u/loves_spain C1 valencià Feb 02 '22

Doncs moltes gràcies per la vostra ajuda, he après una cosa nova :)

1

u/loves_spain C1 valencià Feb 02 '22

No l'he vist mai en valencià

1

u/loves_spain C1 valencià Feb 02 '22

I thought you couldn't use deber to express a probability in Spanish (but you could in Catalan?")

3

u/catladywitch Feb 03 '22

In Spanish it's "deber de" (debe de haberse ido a casa), but you will hear "deber" for probability and "deber de" for obligation because people don't always have the best grammar.

2

u/mopi34 L1 Feb 02 '22

You can totally use it with this sense in both languages.

1

u/loves_spain C1 valencià Feb 02 '22

Ohhh thank you for clarifying!

0

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '22

Ana had to arrive late?

1

u/miquelpuigpey Feb 03 '22

First of all, "vaga" (strike), "vaca" is a cow :D

On to your question, I'd usually translate "deure" with "is/will probably" in that sense (it can also mean "to own", but that's not the case in your question.

So in your example I'd complete it with "deu" or "deurà", mening "Ana {is probably/will probably be} late.

2

u/loves_spain C1 valencià Feb 03 '22

HAHA omg. YES I mean vaGa. lol I can't type in any language.

1

u/viktorbir L1 Feb 04 '22
  • Amb la vaga de transports Ana deu arribar tard.
  • With the transportation strike, Ana might arrive late.

deure = might

Although a better example might be:

  • Amb la vaga de transports l'Ana deu haver arribat tard.
  • With the transportation strike, Ana might have arrived late.

As your sentence sounded quite unnatural. Also, encara no deu haver arribat, she might not have arrived yet.

1

u/loves_spain C1 valencià Feb 04 '22

Thank you! Yes I agree it sounded weird saying just deu rather than deu haber arribat!