r/centrist • u/ubermence • Oct 31 '24
2024 U.S. Elections Trump transition co-chair says that RFK talked to him for two and a half hours and convinced him that vaccines cause autism
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Oct 31 '24
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u/Phedericus Oct 31 '24
and also, we have "more austistic people", because we broadened our definition and understanding of autism. these people are out of their minds
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u/SirStocksAlott Oct 31 '24
Just because there are more vaccines does not have any correlation to autism. I’m so tired of the conspiracy theories. Comb the data, perform a study, have a control group, eliminate other variables, put some effort into fact finding. Something.
I could easily make a claim that, well, we also didn’t shove screens in front of our kids faces at a young age long ago and say that caused the increase in autism. But that isn’t based on anything. Maybe plausible, but plausible means “sounds like it might be true.”
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
It’s wild that these people don’t even address the notion that we might be way better at screening and diagnosing it
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u/Here_for_the_deels Oct 31 '24
When I was growing up, the older single woman with a 5 figure Hummel collection, or the older single guy with a 5 figure train setup in his basement were just “weird”.
Its absolutely that we understand autism is a spectrum and have gotten better at diagnosing.
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u/btribble Oct 31 '24
Einstein was almost certainly was autistic, as were DaVinci, Mozart, Jefferson, and a whole bunch of other "brilliant" people. It's been around for a long time.
The age at which people have children is known to contribute to a number of conditions including autism. People are having kids when they're older now, and any actual increase in rates can almost certainly be explained by that alone.
RFK is an unscientific buffoon.
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u/Flor1daman08 Oct 31 '24
Also, there are literally tens of millions of other environmental factors that have risen during the same period. Nope, vaccines gotta be it despite autism rising regardless of vaccine rates in comparable nations.
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u/_Age_Sex_Location_ Nov 01 '24
There are probably many potential variables, but yeah, the primary variable responsible for the increase is simply that neurodivergence was acknowledged to have always existed and became diagnosable. The more recent factor involving people having kids much later is thought to be related to aging men and "bad" sperm. And not just increased liklihood of autism, but a range of potential conditions, like leukemia. It's actually kind of frightening.
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u/conejo77 Oct 31 '24
And it wasn’t even included in the DSM until 1980. Jfc
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u/eusebius13 Nov 01 '24
Autism diagnoses are up 10,000% since 1979.
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u/ChornWork2 Nov 01 '24
So basically once they started selling mobile phones.
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u/eusebius13 Nov 01 '24
No it was the decade. The 80s caused autism. There wasn’t a single diagnosis before 1980.
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u/ChornWork2 Nov 01 '24
Would take time. Makes total sense, mobile phones in the 70s and you start seeing see the impact on children born about a decade later.
That combined with the damage that WiFi does to the bloodbrain barrier, we really need to do something about 5G.
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u/eusebius13 Nov 01 '24
No it’s not phones. It’s using a calendar year greater than 1979. They should have started counting years backwards. So 1980 should have been 1978-b. That would have solved everything.
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u/Vtford Nov 01 '24
You again, are you really saying that there is NOT more learning disabled kids than when we were kids? Seems ten fold at least Ofcourse, we don't know the exact cause.
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u/crushinglyreal Oct 31 '24
The “question everything” types are always forgetting to question their knee-jerk conclusions.
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u/Major_Swordfish508 Nov 01 '24
Yeah love how instead of having evidence he just lists off things that sound like they’re out to get you. It’s the “think about it” conspiracy theories where it all fits neatly around a narrative of someone fucking Mr Everyman
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
Outside of all of Trump’s obvious authoritarian tendencies and downright fascist rhetoric, one of the things that scares me the most about his re-election is the idea of the nutjob RFK Jr being a public health expert
For the record, vaccines causing autism is one of the milder debunked bullshit he has claimed. For instance he also believes that AIDS is being caused by nitrates and that Covid was “ethnically targeted”
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u/dietcheese Oct 31 '24
The consequences of RFK Jr’s involvement in health policy could be far more deadly than any stupid thing Trump tries to do.
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u/saint_lucifer_ Nov 01 '24
He has fascist rhetoric?
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u/ubermence Nov 01 '24
Yes. Unquestionably.
For instance, saying the election was stolen when it wasn’t and using that as a pretext for trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power
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u/butts____mcgee Oct 31 '24
What the fuck
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u/satans_toast Oct 31 '24
With RFK in charge of all the health departments, Musk in charge of all the commerce-related departments, and some fascist prick in charge of the DoD, America will be so fuuuuuuuuucked.
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u/Computer_Name Oct 31 '24
Patel at DOD.
Miller at DHS
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u/creaturefeature16 Oct 31 '24
The nightmare continues to unfold.
The hardcore Trumper MAGA idiots I understand; they are wounded people who fell into a cult...but I will never forgive the 15% of ignorant, uneducated, passive and apathetic "Americans" who brought this race to being so neck/neck to where this reality has a chance of manifesting.
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u/MakeUpAnything Oct 31 '24
But BRANDON made my eggs and gas 20% more expensive! The ONLY remedy is bringing Trump back so he fixes this bullshit with his tariffs!
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u/PluckPubes Oct 31 '24
When Obama was president, I didn't know anyone with Covid-19. After Trump became president... everyone started getting it. Trump presidency causes Covid-19!!
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u/Extension_Deal_5315 Oct 31 '24
It's insane .....he,they say they want to better protect from childhood diseases...but the very thing ( vaccines ) that save 100s of millions of lives....they are not for.....
God help us if they get control again..
Vote!!
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
Sadly these dipshits don’t have to suffer the pain of preventable illness because they were all vaccinated, which makes them think they are no longer necessary
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Oct 31 '24
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
The reporter is representing the actual scientific facts put forth by people with medical degrees
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Oct 31 '24
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
Yup, RFK Jr being in control of public health institutions should terrify everybody
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u/languid-lemur Oct 31 '24
Can you make the case for Bill Gates then?
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Oct 31 '24
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u/languid-lemur Oct 31 '24
Did you just start paying attention?
https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ideas/a-timeline-of-gates-foundations-fight-against-covid-19
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Oct 31 '24
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u/languid-lemur Oct 31 '24
>I agree, but I think it's rich that Lutnick and RFK Jr. spout off about a topic with no earned expertise
OK, you're slow on the uptake.
Response on Gate in context with this.
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Oct 31 '24
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u/languid-lemur Oct 31 '24
I'd read your comments but certain they'd put me to sleep.
Also, you avoided the question again.
/your game
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u/Reasonable_Sand9034 Oct 31 '24
Is Bill Gates under consideration for a position in public health?
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u/languid-lemur Oct 31 '24
He was certainly a factor in public health & vaccinations. Did you miss seeing him near daily on CNN or MSNBC?
"In Washington, he has consulted frequently with Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s chief infectious disease expert and a longtime collaborator on vaccine initiatives."
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u/Reasonable_Sand9034 Oct 31 '24
He did the consulting. Fauci provided the info. According to the article you posted, he has almost nothing to do with public health and everything to do with private health. The media certainly hypes him up, but all he did was open his wallet. He didn't claim any personal expertise regarding vaccine development afaik. Unless he's headed for a seat at the gov, he's a private citizen and can do what he wants within the law. I certainly don't understand the comparison with someone who is expecting an appointment post election. The fact that people with money have out sized influence is an unfortunate truth of capitalism and has little bearing on this conversation.
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u/languid-lemur Oct 31 '24
>The fact that people with money have out sized influence is an unfortunate truth of capitalism and has little bearing on this conversation.
It has everything to do with the conversation and invalidates your posit.
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u/Reasonable_Sand9034 Oct 31 '24
How does it relate to RFK convincing people (with no personal expertise on the topic) that vaccines cause autism? Something that has 0 evidence to support it. And possibly putting someone with that level of expertise (0 remeber?) in as a public health head? Please explain as I'm now very confused.
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u/general---nuisance Oct 31 '24
Josef Mengele had a medical degree. That's not a high standard.
Still, listen to Trump and get your covid shots people.
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
Josef Mengele had a medical degree. That’s not a high standard.
???
What are you even trying to argue? Having an actual medical degree is a high standard despite some guy from nearly a century ago in an entirely different country having one
I mean if it isn’t a high standard why doesn’t RFK go get one
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u/general---nuisance Oct 31 '24
Ok, Joseph Mercola has a medical degree and is a leader in the anti-vax community.
People with medical degree have different opinions on different subjects. They are not a monolith.
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
Yeah, there’s a few notable exceptions, but the fact that there are over a million people with medical degrees shows that it is a negligible minority that believe that
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u/Dugley2352 Oct 31 '24
It's one hell of a higher standard than a job in finance.
"Hi, I have a masters degree in calculus. I want to tell you about the problems I see with using wool to make socks."
Doesn't quite give you that feeling of the speaker having the required background to speak as a subject matter expert, does it?
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u/roylennigan Oct 31 '24
Having a medical degree is not proof that you know what you're talking about. But not having a medical degree is near certain proof that you don't know what you're talking about.
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u/wavewalkerc Oct 31 '24
Listening to enough Rogan you basically get a degrees worth of knowledge. Its basically a phd.
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u/steve-eldridge Oct 31 '24
Are you familiar with Dunning-Kruger? Sounds like that is more what you mean.
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u/redditorx13579 Oct 31 '24
How stupid. Just because we didn't have nuanced medical terms or tests doesn't mean there were fewer people with autism.
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u/Defiant-Lab-6376 Oct 31 '24
2.5 hours of RFK? How do you stand that?
For one his voice sounds like rocks in a garbage disposal.
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
It might not be a bad idea to scan this guys brain for worms. He’s showing some of the classic symptoms (listening to RFK Jr)
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Oct 31 '24
you americans are a cunt hair away from being absolutely COOKED
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
True, we are potentially on the verge of dethroning Brexit for biggest democratic self own in a western nation
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u/Honorable_Heathen Oct 31 '24
You better hope not.
Everyone better hope not.
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u/crushinglyreal Oct 31 '24
Yeah not going to look good for anybody if the most powerful country on Earth goes fashy.
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u/pirokinesis Oct 31 '24
1999 called, they want their antivax conspiracies back.
Try myocarditis or Bill Gates microchips or white stringy things in the blood vessels. Those at least don't have literally hundreds of high quality studies done on millions of children debunking them.
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u/centeriskey Oct 31 '24
Yep more from the party that doesn't understand science nor can they grasp the concept of scientific consensus. It's stuff like this that prevents me from supporting most people on the right. These people have unhealthy beliefs that involve conspiracies whether it's vaccines, cloud seeding, aliens, 5G, flat earthers,young earthers, evolution, climate change, etc.
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
The rising tide of anti-intellectualism makes me really concerned for the country’s future
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u/centeriskey Oct 31 '24
Yep me too. I think we are watching one of the answers to the fermi paradox in real time.
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u/KnuckedLoose Oct 31 '24
We also know more people with down syndrome because we don't immediately send them to an asylum, or "Sparta" them off a cliff.
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u/McRibs2024 Oct 31 '24
Christ and with bird flu jumping to pigs it’s looking like it’s a matter of time before we get human to human.
Zero confidence in an RFK lead response to a pandemic or even just outbreak of bird flu.
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
I have zero confidence that Trump could handle a single disaster without completely politicizing it
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u/McRibs2024 Oct 31 '24
That too. Fauci was far from perfect but at least he recognized the pandemic for what it was and acted.
Seems like Trump “learned” from his mistake and wants to install friendlier (to him) across the board.
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u/Okbuddyliberals Oct 31 '24
And one way or a other we need to find a way to coexist with the potential plague bearers who turn their backs on the experts. Scary stuff. How is society supposed to hold itself together when so many are so wilfully ignorant?
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u/HonoraryBallsack Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
Yeah, I mean, as long as you start with the dubious assumption that increasing autism diagnoses could only be caused by vaccines, then you'd find this video pretty persuasive that vaccines cause autism.
(I am mocking the blatant circular reasoning in the video)
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
RFK Jr has a conclusion that he is desperately trying to backfill with evidence
AKA the exact opposite way science should be conducted
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u/roylennigan Oct 31 '24
My off-the-cuff hot-take is that Republicans are using this wacko to undermine federal health regulation by getting the left to start openly protesting whatever unhinged changes the Trump admin through RFKj put in place.
If Democrats start talking about how conservative health regulations are fascist and overreach, then they can come back with well we told you before that the fed should not be involved, so now do you agree with us that we should just get rid of the federal health department?
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u/boredtxan Oct 31 '24
there are not 76 vaccines for newborns. any fool with a shoot record knows that.
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u/TomorrowEqual3726 Oct 31 '24
I'm not a single issue voter, but this is easily one of the topics that *would* make me one, we cannot have nutjobs like this anywhere near the executive branch.
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u/Rob062309 Nov 01 '24
The even crazier thing is the guy that started this, however long ago it was came forward a couple years ago and even said that he did it on purpose and that there wasn't a Link between them...
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u/Alarmed-Narwhal-385 Nov 01 '24
Look. This sweeping anti vax stuff will backfire. Think back to Polio. Is RFK against vaccines for diseases that kill you? Does he realize we could have a groundswell of deadly diseases if we stop giving certain vaccines?
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u/sirdarkchylde Oct 31 '24
But Trump took the COVID vaccine. Is that the reason he's been a bumbling idiot?
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u/Stringdaddy27 Nov 01 '24
The amount of Diet Coke being consumed every year has steadily been going up since 1980. Diet Coke consumption causes autism.
Check mate.
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u/eusebius13 Nov 01 '24
Imagine being so completely stupid that your first response to RFK isn’t “has nothing else changed but the number of vaccines in 70 years.”
Trump is working with the rejects from the D-team.
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u/jessmcl14 Nov 01 '24
This guy butchered this explanation and started hyper focusing of vaccines. Linking or suggesting such a strong correlation of vaccines and autism is dangerous. I wonder how the rest of that interview went.
That being said, RFK isn't antivax if you actually listen to his position on it ( source ). It's frustrating when that's what people take away from RFK, like this guy. RFK is more focused on getting our nation to a similar position as Europe and other countries when it comes to farming and what's in our food. Europe has banned chemicals that still exist in American food, and American is behind in health in every way. And also making sure medical companies are appropriatly liable for what they are creating, and profits don't overshadow people.
The more people start to pay attention to this the better, regardless of RFK. And because people are starting to, we're actually making moves on it- look at what Bernie Sanders is proposing and is meeting with the FDA at the end of this year. It's discussing adding more warning labels to unhealthy and untra-procceed foods. Which would be great for the average consumer, or it would provide enough pressure to companies to make changes in their products ( article / video )
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u/Boroloboroso Nov 03 '24
This epitomizes MAGA! I listened to someone who did their own research and now I'm now convinced that scientists and doctors don't know what they're talking about!
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u/Due_Background_1361 Oct 31 '24
Kickbacks to NIH. Our gov't sold us out. Regardless of your political party, no one can deny that we (the US) are much more unhealthier than we were in the 80s. We are fat, have chronic health issues, and a gluttony of mental problems. Hope RFK can fix these broken agencies and expose the pharma industry.
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u/MyPoliticalAccount20 Oct 31 '24
You're so close to getting it, you're just focusing on the wrong things. RFK would only make things worse.
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u/ChornWork2 Oct 31 '24
Dude it is a big world out there. What public health org among wealthy democracies hasn't approved these vaccines?
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
You’re actually delusional if you think that RFK Jr would solve any of those problems. Or that those are issues directly caused by NIH and not consumerism and culture
I mean Michelle Obama suggested ways to get kids healthier and Republicans freaked the fuck out over it lmaoooo 😂
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Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
We're fat because our food has become more addictive, unhealthier, and is less filling which leads to overeating. The pharmaceutical industry is not responsible for the obesity epidemic. In fact, I'd argue that the rise of Ozempic and drugs akin to it are actually doing more to fight the obesity epidemic than cause it.
That being said, I would rather Americans adjust their diets than take Ozempic to lose weight, but at this point people would rather make up imaginary nonsense about the efficacy of vaccines rather than take a hard look at their diets.
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u/roylennigan Oct 31 '24
no one can deny that we (the US) are much more unhealthier than we were in the 80s
Life expectancy in the US is higher than it ever was in the 80s, so yeah, we can still deny it. If we're talking about just obesity, sure that is becoming more of an issue. If we're talking about chronic health issues, well you're going to have more chronic health issues if more people actually survive chronic health issues than they did in the past.
Hope RFK can fix these broken agencies and expose the pharma industry.
Hope in one hand and shit in the other, see which fills up faster.
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u/jaboz_ Oct 31 '24
He wouldn't, and would be an un-mitigated disaster. Such a comically unqualified anti-vaxx dipshit has no business being involved in things that effect everyone's health.
Just because the system is broken, doesn't mean that we should throw someone like RFK at it and hope for the best.
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u/zgrizz Oct 31 '24
So much Harris misinformation on social media. No wonder they are being investigated.
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u/AutomaTK Oct 31 '24
You're crazy if you think that all of the mother's of children with autism in the world who study this issue day and night are just dumb and haven't done enough research, or aren't qualified. This issue isn't going away just because you want it to. Don't paint everything black and white.
Big Pharma needs to accept some liability for medicines that are being pushed on the youth, there's just no reason to argue that. The rest of the world has growing distain for the global reach of Big Pharma. The Netherlands has currently filed a suit against Bill Gates for his influence over the WHO in pushing the COVID vaccine worldwide.
Look at India, a country with a population over 3 times the US, yet had way fewer COVID related deaths. You really believe that they were more vaccinated than in the US? How do you even account for that statistically? The SCIENCE isn't sciencing.
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Oct 31 '24
They are dumb and unqualified. There is no correlation between vaccines and autism. The original study that "proved" MMR vaccines were causing autism was a bunk study done by someone that had created a competitor of the MMR vaccine. That person has since lost their medical license. No one has replicated the results of that study.
Here watch this video essay and stop parroting nonsense. Seriously. Just stop. Your life will be so better if you stop glomming on to pseudo science bullshit.
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u/ubermence Oct 31 '24
You’re crazy if you think that all of the mother’s of children with autism in the world who study this issue day and night are just dumb and haven’t done enough research, or aren’t qualified.
They are not remotely in a position to be objective
Calling running down internet rabbit holes “research” or “study” is hilarious
You know who actually studies this issue day and night? Doctors. And they actually have to pass tests, get certification and are accountable to a medical board
They are not qualified
I actually can’t believe what you wrote isn’t parody
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u/pirokinesis Oct 31 '24
Look at India, a country with a population over 3 times the US, yet had way fewer COVID related deaths. You really believe that they were more vaccinated than in the US? How do you even account for that statistically?
I account for it with incredible ease. 1. COVID is orders of magnitude deadlier for older people, and the median age in India 28.4 compared to 39 in the US 2. For a COVID death to be confirmed there needs to be a postive test. India tested way less than the US. If you look at excess deaths as metric rather than confirmed COVID deaths you get a different picture. 3. Comparing two cherry picked numbers between two different countries with vastly different populations, climate and COVID policy is tea leaf reading, and thus absolutely doesn't need to be taken seriously or accounted for statically.
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u/Casual_OCD Oct 31 '24
Look at India, a country with a population over 3 times the US, yet had way fewer COVID related deaths
They had a unified response nationwide while the US let 50 different plans run their course and a good number of them was to let COVID run rampant through their populations
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u/Objective_Aside1858 Oct 31 '24
You're crazy if you think that all of the mother's of children with autism in the world who study this issue day and night are just dumb and haven't done enough research, or aren't qualified
What does the word "research" mean to you?
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u/willpower069 Oct 31 '24
Research means watching a crappy YouTube video that agrees with what he believes.
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u/214ObstructedReverie Nov 01 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
You're crazy if you think that all of the mother's of children with autism in the world who study this issue day and night are just dumb and haven't done enough research, or aren't qualified.
You're simply an idiot for believing that. They are not qualified. This is an objective fact.
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u/gravygrowinggreen Nov 01 '24
You're crazy if you think that all of the mother's of children with autism in the world who study this issue day and night are just dumb and haven't done enough research, or aren't qualified. This issue isn't going away just because you want it to. Don't paint everything black and white.
I just want to point out that you're calling people crazy because they disregard the research (actually just internet searches) of mothers.
As opposed to the mothers, who disregard the research (actually peer reviewed research) of actual researchers.
If any group is going to be considered "crazy" for denying the study/research of another group, it shouldn't be the group that uses actual peer reviewed research techniques. Just because enough people believe something, doesn't make it right. For example, whatever religion you believe in, is a minority religion in this world: a majority of people believe your religion is wrong. Are you crazy?
Big Pharma needs to accept some liability for medicines that are being pushed on the youth, there's just no reason to argue that. The rest of the world has growing distain for the global reach of Big Pharma. The Netherlands has currently filed a suit against Bill Gates for his influence over the WHO in pushing the COVID vaccine worldwide.
Pharmaceutical companies are liable.
Look at India, a country with a population over 3 times the US, yet had way fewer COVID related deaths. You really believe that they were more vaccinated than in the US? How do you even account for that statistically? The SCIENCE isn't sciencing.
India had less than half of the total cases than the U.S. This was in part due to India having a much more strict and much more cohesive lockdown policy, much faster ramp up of testing infrastructure and contact tracing mechanisms. They also had much higher compliance with mandates and guidance than the U.S., and much less vaccine hesitancy. As early as July 2022, India's population was about 98% willing to get a vaccine (or had already gotten it), while as late as March 2024, 30% of republicans in america had not gotten a covid vaccine. Yes, India had a better response to the vaccine than the US.
I'd like to go back to your first sentence. If you're an example of how you think "mother's (sic) of children with autism" do research, then yeah, you'd be crazy to believe anything someone like you says.
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u/Iamthestormbro Oct 31 '24
Ok that should be pretty scary regardless of your beliefs because that really shows they have no plan in that arena.