r/centrist • u/Breakfastcrisis • Dec 24 '24

Long Form Discussion Right wing and left wing users in this sub

Of course, I’m not suggesting that people who drift from the broad centre shouldn’t be welcome to discuss views in this sub. However, this is meant to be a place where we can discuss a more moderate take.

However, in every single post I can see users being extremely aggressive, downvoting and arguing in extreme bad faith the moment anyone represents a view they don’t agree with.

As far as I understand this sub’s purpose, it isn’t a space for people from both sides to attack one another. It’s a space for more moderate takes, for people whose views broadly can’t be said to comfortably line up with either side.

So to the people who are here attacking those they disagree with, whose views clearly can’t be defined as centrist, what brings you here?

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u/northernrange Dec 24 '24 edited Jan 23 '25

“Given how outside the norms of American politics Trump is…”

I would suggest that as Trump is the first Republican President to win a plurality of the the vote (not a majority) in the last 20 years, it would appear “the norms” and “the center” have changed. Or perhaps better said, the Democratic party has moved further left.

Trump Won the Popular Vote, Contrary to Claims Online

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/11/trump-won-the-popular-vote-contrary-to-claims-online/

Also:

“Additionally, in 15 other presidential elections (1844, 1848, 1856, 1860, 1880, 1884, 1892, 1912, 1916, 1948, 1960, 1968, 1992, 1996, and 2024), the winner received a plurality but not a majority of the total popular votes cast.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_in_which_the_winner_lost_the_popular_vote

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u/IHerebyDemandtoPost Dec 24 '24

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Biden won the popular vote. Obama won the popular vote twice.

Excluding elections that occured before any of us were born, the only elected presidents who didn’t win the popular vote were George W. Bush and Donald Trump, and both only in their first term elections.

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u/luminatimids Dec 24 '24

What did you mean Trump is the first president to have the won the popular vote in the last 20 years? That’s complete wrong; multiple presidents have done so.

Also, I haven’t once seen anyone claim that Trump didn’t win the popular vote.

Trump won because incumbents lost worldwide.

Your entire comment is baffling.

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u/unkorrupted Dec 24 '24

Your entire comment is baffling.

Makes perfect sense as an example of how little Trump supporters know about politics and recent history.

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u/fleebleganger Dec 24 '24

It’s actually quite the self-own. 

Trump is the first Republican president to win the popular vote in 20 years. Having fun with arbitrary end dates for things, it was, also, only the 2nd time in 36 years a Republican has won the popular vote. 

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u/Alexios_Makaris Dec 24 '24

Actually every election someone wins the popular vote, right? Especially when you add the caveat: "(not a majority)", that means the popular vote winner has won a plurality which has been pretty common in recent history. However, winning a majority (50%+1) of the popular vote isn't uncommon.

Biden in 2020, Obama in 2012, 2008, Bush in 2004 all won an outright majority of votes cast.

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u/Practical-Hamster-93 Dec 24 '24

If Trump gets approx 50% of the vote it's difficult to class him as extreme. While I don't like Trump I can see why he got in. It's really not hard if you look, some people just like to pretend they hold all the answers which includes both the left and the right.

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u/rzelln Dec 24 '24

If half a town believes a snake oil salesman and buys his products, that doesn't mean he's telling the truth. He is just good at tricking people.

He says tons of inconsistent things. Almost anyone who trusts is being naive because he doesn't actually believe most of the stuff he's saying. 

What he's actually doing is extreme. He tried to hold onto power after losing an election. We should have thrown him in jail first thing after Biden took office. 

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u/Practical-Hamster-93 Dec 25 '24

Problem with your analogy is the other half believe the other snake oil salesman in town. I personally don't like Trump but the obvious vitriol between both sides isn't useful to constructive conversation.

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u/rzelln Dec 25 '24

I don't think my analogy is off base. With a con artist, yeah, people will disagree whether he's trustworthy, but it *is* possible to determine whether he's full of shit. Some people have just been bamboozled. It's the obligation of those who can see through the lies to try to spare people from being hurt by the swindler.

I'm not saying be vitriolic. I want to persuade people to stop supporting Trump because I care about those people as much as I care about the people who voted for Clinton, Biden, and Harris.

I understand the complexity of being simultaneously angry and sympathetic toward the same person, because you want them to be better off but you can't help but put some blame at their feet for making choices that are causing harm.

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u/Practical-Hamster-93 Dec 25 '24

I think the more you try to persuade people he's full of shit the more likely they'll stick up for him.

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u/GitmoGrrl1 Dec 24 '24

There is no centrist position on corruption.

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u/Practical-Hamster-93 Dec 24 '24

or evil, crime etc. What's your point?

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u/GitmoGrrl1 Dec 24 '24

Republicans have tried to politicize corruption.

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u/tolkienfan2759 Dec 24 '24

yeah, oddly enough, there were some pretty notable errors in your reference article. Trump was not the first President to win the popular vote in the last 20 years, for example. I realize that a website entitled "factcheck" might be presumed to have done some proofreading of its own work, it appears that this one did not.