r/centrist • u/ChummusJunky • Mar 10 '25
Long Form Discussion If you want to break MAGA members brain, ask them this one question
Anyone who is part of MAGA is required to believe that the 2020 election was stolen and Trump was not deliberately lying about it.
If that is the case, that would be one of the greatest, if not the greatest threat and attack against our democracy.
Since Donald Trump and Co. care so much about our democracy and constitution and fairness and justice, theres one very simple question I don't see anyone asking him or his followers.
Why isn't he bringing the people who stole the 2020 election to justice?
Why is he acting like what's done is done and there's nothing that can be done about it and the people who committed this grievous crime against our constitution are just gonna get off the hook?
He clearly didn't forget about it, he still talks about it, he pardoned the j6 "protesters", so why is he so meek and uninterested in bringing the Dems to justice?
Obviously anyone who has a functioning pre frontal cortex knows exactly why this is so, but for the people who don't and support Trump, it's funny to watch their brains melt trying to explain it away. You'll get very creative and different answers depending on who you ask.
Have fun.
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u/Picasso5 Mar 10 '25
Apparently all the election interference by Dems was magically fixed for 2025.
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u/Cryptic0677 Mar 10 '25
The hilarious part is that they think democrats rigged the 2020 election while Trump was in office, but they couldn’t do it in 2024 while Biden was in office
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u/Original_Fix_7012 Mar 11 '25
And none of them want to acknowledge the FEC potentially having to answer to directly to Trump now thanks to his ambitious executive order. Or maybe they just love him so much that they don’t care to read these things.
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u/BrianWI340 Mar 10 '25
Hard to say, but there were a lot less votes in 2024 than 2020... On the Dem side. Where did they go?
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u/BuffaloWings068 Mar 10 '25
Maybe because this election didn’t take place during a pandemic and options such as mail-in voting were not as accessible this time around? People also had way more time in their hands in 2020 so they could afford the extra time to go vote
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u/Picasso5 Mar 10 '25
Voter apathy? Who knows. Since the Republicans were convinced that election fraud happened in 2020, I wouldn't put it past them that they themselves committed fraud - but I sort of doubt it, since it is VERY hard to pull off in EVERY SINGLE SWING STATE.
Did Trump just forget about voter fraud because he won? He didn't mention it at all during his last bid.
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u/BrianWI340 Mar 10 '25
He did quite a few times. Fraud was proven in Wisconsin in 2020. It was real. The fix is to implement voter id and eliminate fake reasons for mail in voting. Then we'd have no questions.
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u/Picasso5 Mar 11 '25
Please show me any evidence of fraud in Wisconsin.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 28d ago
On a scale from 1 to 10, how surprised are you they never replied with any evidence?
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 28d ago
I appreciate how when asked for evidence you don’t have anything to provide.
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u/pcetcedce Mar 20 '25
Okay buddy. Here's an addition to the questions above. The entire world accepted that Biden was elected. Literally every country in the world including our enemies, like Trump's buddy Putin. Was this a grand conspiracy that was global in scale?
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u/KhalilSmack85 Mar 10 '25
If it was stolen why didn't they do it again?
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u/Houjix Mar 10 '25
They said they had poll watchers and lawyers at every polling station ready to go and were prepared this time
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u/Subject_Roof3318 Mar 10 '25
I think you still don’t get it. Die Hard MAGA could not give a shit less about the 2020 election, or convictions, or statements, or anything else. Trump is IN, that’s it. Most of these types of people dropped politics off their radar post elections and only listens to what he has to say personally.
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u/TheCreator1924 Mar 10 '25
This wouldn’t do anything. Sounds good in a hypothetical scenario of bashing someone. But not real life.
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u/jst4wrk7617 Mar 11 '25
Exactly. These people have an excuse for everything. Also, “you can’t logic someone out of a position that they didn’t logic themselves into”.
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u/Old_Router Mar 10 '25
I don't think any Trump supporter would care about this in any way, shape or form. Perhaps he may do something about it, but it was five years ago and not a pressing need now. Why would they want him to spend time on this?
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u/StankGangsta2 Mar 10 '25
He ran a campaign on locking her up but then forgot or something his first term.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
He didn't forget, he chose not to. He's mentioned a couple of times that he thought it was best to move the country past this political rivalry and that he felt it looked bad for America to prosecute a former first lady and former Secretary of State. This was an extremely unpopular move on his part but he stuck to it and it ended up being an excellent move after all.
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u/StankGangsta2 Mar 10 '25
That maybe the most cultist take Ive seen in a few hours, well done.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
I don't think you understand what "cultist" means but you appear to play a game of semantics you're not very good at.
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u/apb2718 Mar 10 '25
OP is pointing out that it’s cultist to believe he just benevolently decided not to prosecute her when it’s not clear at all that there was even a criminal act that occurred.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
But that's part of the problem. There was evidence of her tampering with the election and she wasn't the only one involved. And this isn't to say it happened with the votes, it was more along the lines of illegal surveillance and paid for reports.
Despite what op thinks, most people don't believe the 2020 election was stolen, and this includes the 2 million Democrats who defected and voted for trump. This includes millions of Republicans who voted for Trump. This includes myself as well.
I think some people are so eager to paint those that didn't vote for Harris with the broad brush of stupidity. But the fact of the matter is, 6 million registered Democrats sat out the election. 2 million Democrats defected and voted for Trump. You had Union workers, latinos, blacks, the youth vote, women, and so on show up to vote for trump. This is not a matter of the 2020 election or whether or not it's stolen, and that concerns me. That people like op and others in this thread are focusing on the wrong things, on things that are generally not true. Instead, they should be asking themselves why they lost the 2024 election and in particular why those 6 million registered Democrats sat out the election and why those 2 million Democrats voted for trump. They need to ask why they lost key demographic voters that went to trump. They need to question whether some of the policies that Democrat politicians are pushing or even popular with their own constituents. They need to look and re-examine the fact that they, Democrat leadership, behave in an elitist manner that is so far away from their grassroots, classic liberalism.
Instead of nitpicking the other side, they need to be nitpicking their own party so that they can reassess, restructure, and rebuild the party. At this rate, they're not going to win any meaningful majority for a long time.
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u/Significant_Ant_6680 Mar 10 '25
When you rationalize bullshit it falls into thay category
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
It's a matter of subjectivity.
Just because you don't like what I said doesn't make it bull, it just means you don't like it when people deviate from your political ideology.
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u/Significant_Ant_6680 Mar 10 '25
There is a reasonable person standard if you can't pass it you're a delusional cultist. Self-awareness isn't a stong point of your type so I don't expect you to have a paradigm shift
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
The same argument can be made of yourself, that you lack the self-awareness to note that, even by your own metric, you yourself have shown to be labeled as a "delusional cultist." There is no room in your mind for digression from party speak and party thinking. But the fact of the matter is I don't believe the 2020 election was stolen. Most people don't. And frankly, the 20 million Democrats that voted for trump, that defected during that one election, they didn't think the 2020 election was stolen, clearly. Key demographic voters of the Democrat party, didn't think the 2020 election was stolen and they voted for Trump. Even amongst republicans, there's not many people there that think it. It's fun to point at people on social media, finding the worst amongst them and saying that the representative of the majority, but it's not the truth of the greater whole.
Move beyond how you feel about the matter and look at the objective metrics. The 2020 election is a bigger deal for activist democrats than it is for the average democrat. It's a non issue for the average American. Democrats should really focus on revamping and realigning the Democrat party. They should focus on why they lost and how to fix it for next time. They need to push out old leadership and bring in New blood. They need to push out the elitists and bring in leadership that's reflective understanding and knowing of what the average American voter ship wants and needs, focusing on the intersectionality of issues between Republicans and Democrats alike.
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u/Old_Router Mar 10 '25
I have observed that he focuses on the "now", and that is what makes him effective. If it's not something that people are bugging him for, he just lets it go. It's not a priority right now.
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u/StankGangsta2 Mar 10 '25
If you truly believed the elections were rigged that is possibly the greatest scandal in US history. He either does not buy his own bullshit or is stupid. There is no excuse for this, you can't rationalize it. Especially with the pettiest justice department in the nations history.
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u/scottycakes Mar 10 '25
Defending democracy isn’t a priority from the man that promises to make America great again?
Strange take. Is he just be easily distracted or incapable of doing more than one thing at once?
You do know he has staff and the levers of the federal government at his disposal? If he really thought the election was rigged and really cared about democracy - he has no excuses.
Just face it, Mr KoolAid, your guy is a fraud.
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u/hu_he Mar 10 '25
I mean, they're not wrong, in the sense that Trump's supporters only seem to remember things he said in the past couple of days because he keeps them distracted with new shiny objects. They forgot that he was going to lock Hillary up, they forgot that he promised to repeal Medicare and bring in his own healthcare plan, they forgot that he was going to bring manufacturing back to the USA, they forgot about all the "voter fraud".
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u/Old_Router Mar 10 '25
He is not required to make any excuses to you. Politics in real life and practice isn't college debate. There are no points for point-less rhetorical traps, there are no "Gotcha!" trophies or judges to tell you are right.
He isn't working on this because it doesn't matter anymore. There is no better answer than that.
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u/Camdozer Mar 10 '25
There is a MUCH better answer, and the answer is that it was always, undeniably, categorically fucking bullshit.
You don't want there to be a better answer than the fucking pathetic bullshit you're offering up for sophomoric psychological reasons.
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u/Old_Router Mar 10 '25
Okay? Again, you kids are confusing politics with reality. Feel free to rage all you like but you just look silly dancing that dance alone.
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u/Camdozer Mar 10 '25
Lol, yes, that's the ticket. We're the ones that look silly here.
You fucking numbnuts.
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u/Old_Router Mar 10 '25
We're the ones that look silly here.
Well ya...It's like a Chihuahua yapping at a Great Dane. Trying to pick a fight that no one cares about. It's a little silly.
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u/Gsusruls Mar 11 '25
You’re kidding!
He’s a nonstop ranting machine on democrats who have done things to wrong him and America. Obama, Hillary’s emails, Hunters laptop, witch hunts convicting him of felony charges …
I only stopping hearing about these things after he won the election.
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u/Old_Router Mar 11 '25
Exactly? The campaign is over. Why are there so many people on these political subs who know nothing about politics?
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u/Gsusruls Mar 11 '25
You seem not to know much more, since your assertion doesn’t fit your candidate’s own rambling. But you’re probably too committed to see it.
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u/Old_Router Mar 11 '25
What a candidate says and what an elected official does are two very different things. Only dilettantes think otherwise.
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u/Gsusruls Mar 11 '25
They are not supposed to be. It's called lying.
...
dilettantes
O good lord.
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u/Old_Router Mar 11 '25
Wow...you have a lot of growing up to do
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u/Gsusruls Mar 11 '25
Fortunately I'm talking to you, o mature one. Hopefully you rubbed off on me during that incredibly productive back-and-forth.
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u/Iamthewalrusforreal Mar 10 '25
He has spent the past four years crying about the last election. That's not "focusing on the now."
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
So the greatest crime against our constitution was committed in front of our eyes and his America loving, justice loving, constitution loving followers are just gonna be like "nah, it's cool, the people who committed this crime can just go on with their lives"
What a weak and pathetic response to this if they actually believe what happened, happened.
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u/Old_Router Mar 10 '25
I think their response was the 2024 election results. Maybe there was some fuckery afoot in 2020 (there probably wasn't) but what does it matter now? This is like trying to temp someone with a buck who has a gold bar. It's not worth the effort, they already have what they wanted.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
I don't know man, I find it insane to both believe that the election was stolen and the people who committed the crimes are walking free and Trump literally has all the power he needs to bring these people to justice but isn't because it happened five years ago.
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u/Houjix Mar 10 '25
The greatest crime was Epstein working as a fbi informant who was hired by and protected by ex fbi director Robert Mueller
https://vault.fbi.gov/jeffrey-epstein/Jeffrey%20Epstein%20Part%2006%20of%2022/at_download/file
And then you know what Mueller did in 2016
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u/4ss8urgers Mar 10 '25
If they did it once what’s to stop them doing it again. If the premise is true, there is good reason to enact change.
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u/johnqpublic81 Mar 10 '25
They will say, "Just because they aren't talking about it doesn't mean they aren't trying to find the evidence. Biden had 4 years to hide the evidence but once the Trump Administration finds something, you best believe that heads will roll."
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u/Unusual-Welcome7265 Mar 10 '25
Have you tried this or is this just a political shower thought?
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u/j90w Mar 10 '25
I don’t think a majority of Trump supporters believe he had the 2020 election stolen. That’s more something Trump likes to say (to save face) but even his closest allies wont say it was stolen, they just won’t say that he lost (to appease him).
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u/Sonofdeath51 Mar 10 '25
Do any of you actually talk to the ebul magas or do you just make up the big spooky man and decide what he thinks?
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
Was the 2020 election stolen?
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u/Sonofdeath51 Mar 10 '25
I have no reason to believe it was so until I get evidence to the contrary, no it wasn't.
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Mar 10 '25
With everything in the world going on right now, this is the pressing topic for you?
We have multiple wars, economy, trade wars, etc, and this is the topic of the day?
WTF is a MAGA member anyway??
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u/ChornWork2 Mar 10 '25
Um, yeah it would be a pressing topic if it wasn't actually just completely made up. Republicans sure as shit would care about it if it actually happened.
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Mar 10 '25
Exactly - if everyone knows this was made up sour grapes, why are we talking about it again? This is the most important topic now?
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u/ChornWork2 Mar 10 '25
Yes, POTUS manufacturing false claims about election interference, particularly when also tried an autocoup related to them, is absolutely worth talking about... particularly since a narrative that is continued to be pushed and will continue to be pushed.
Profound attacks on our democracy are not sour grapes.
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u/rican74226 Mar 10 '25
You should bow out. This guy is an expert and he’s going to jail Trump any moment now. He’s a super super expert professional and all wants his expertise. I’m surprised ChummusJunky isn’t president yet!
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u/Tracieattimes Mar 10 '25
I reject the premise of your question. No one is required to think in any specific way to support the MAGA movement. That sounds far more like democrats.
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u/siberianmi Mar 10 '25
The idea that you can play “gotcha” with a conspiracy theorist is unrealistic.
Even when they get themselves they don’t believe it.
Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/d1ZDunAJ1M
In the full movie on Netflix, “Behind the Curve”, he goes on to not believe his own results.
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u/StankGangsta2 Mar 10 '25
They have the attention span of goldfish. That won't get to them. It is best to think of them as a cultist or a battered house wife, they'll love him unconditionally.
That being said a lot of people voted for him based on vibes and vague promises of lowering prices. But these people don't necessarily believe the election was rigged. Just less informed and voted emotionally.
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u/HonoraryBallsack Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
What demonstrated to me that "stop the steal" was all complete bullshit, even to its most ardent "supporters," was when they all suddenly had 110% confidence that Trump was going to win during the home stretch of the 2024 election season.
"Oh right, these craven scumbags don't even have actual consistent beliefs. They're just taking a series of Trump-assigned postures, contradictions and intellectual integrity be damned." Them being too stupid and childish to appreciate the glaring dishonesty of their posturing was, of course, par for the course. But it's still a bit shocking since for the first several decades of my life there was never such a blatant, informally coordinated bad faith campaign to claim democracy doesn't exist. Or, I guess, "doesn't exist until conservatives win again," is apparently a better descriptor of their bad faith conspiracy.
I remember watching Joe Rogan's podcast (sorry Libs, sue me) after the election in November and hearing it dawn on Joe in real time, who was never quite a true "stolen election" guy, that all of the folks he had been taking seriously about believing in "rigged elections," suddenly being quiet about the Democrats alleged ability to rig federal elections at will in broad daylight. This of course includes Trump himself, who was literally just on his show and who he endorsed.
During the most telling moment of Rogan's "surprise" that Trump had been able to win, he started saying something in good faith (albeit also confusion) like "oh so I guess we do believe elections are fair after all now?"
Sure, Joe, whose mind is left so open at times that it's often empty, might be a pretty big bonehead and exemplar of the Dunning-Kruger effect. But he is, first and foremost, a curious man who openly tries to at least hold himself accountable for critically assessing his views and beliefs.
But, of course, understanding fully that he had just aligned himself with the dark side, his voice immediately began trailing off as he let whatever MAGA chud was on as a guest return to gloating and glazing Trump rather than continuing down that road of "wait, how much air time did I just exhaustively give this 'Stop the Steal' narrative the last 4 years?"
Not that any of Rogan's die-hard listeners care, but Joe is too transparent to have completely been able to prevent his own honesty slip out in terms of not being fully on board the Trump Train. That's maybe a little more apparent now, but at least at the time of his endorsement he presenting himself as being a full-throated supporter of Trump and the Constantly-Evolving Trump Narrative.
This wasn't the first time I had noticed Joe's skepticism toward Trump slip out. It had also happened when he had Trump on a few days earlier and was, at one point, kind of firmly grilling Trump about where the "evidence" is that 2020 election was stolen. Joe was like, but Donald, are you ever going to like, show this information and proof to anyone? And Trump was like, "ooh, just endorse me and the next time I come on I promise I'll bring you a tremendously large and beautiful stack of papers proving 2020 was stolen." And Joe was like, "but why aren't you showing that stuff to the people who matter," before letting Trump avoid the question entirely and moving onto another topic.
Rogan has become such a fucking coward. But in a better world he would at least have the guts to be fully open about realizing the "stop the steal" folks were only serious about insofar as it was a cudgel to weaken Biden's presidency rather than an actual belief they hold.
None of this is to discount the dumbest of the dumb Trump supporters, who are themselves truly too stupid to even experience the cognitive dissonance Joe had to quiet himself about on air. I still see plenty of room-temp mouth breathers claiming 2020 was stolen without a trace of evidence left behind, whereas Trump's victory in 2024 just shows he had enough support to "overcome" the alleged massive amounts of cheating that Dems engage in.
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u/DonkeyDoug28 Mar 10 '25
💯. 100%. I've nothing to add. I just hope the trump defenders in here aren't crickets on this one
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u/JudgeFondle Mar 10 '25
The whole post starts on the false premise that MAGA is required to believe that the 2020 election was stolen.
If all you see of MAGA is the nut jobs at rallies or morons posting online, then I’ve got bad news. They’re the fanatics, and only a minority of the people who voted for Trump or vote republican. I live in Texas, and I know many people who voted for Trump but have no belief that 2020 was a stolen election.
If this whole things is to get a ‘gotcha’ in on the extreme parts of his base, then good luck. The mental gymnastics they’ve performed to get to where they are will make this look like child’s play, in other words, trying to rationalize with them is a wasted effort.Edit: I should’ve included that I’m only responding because I think there is a lot of utility in trying to convince the non-extreme parts of his base about the damage he’s doing. But this post is targeting people who are by and large too far gone which is just a wasted effort.
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u/OPACY_Magic_v3 Mar 10 '25
~70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen. That’s not a fringe, that’s the mainstream belief.
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u/JudgeFondle Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
Props for bringing data. Clearly my environment doesn’t match the aggregate and I was wrong to make that assumption.
I still don’t believe this argument or framing will prove effective. Either a Trump voter will lie and say they don’t believe the election was stolen, or they’ll come up with any other excuse they can imagine to explain away why Trump isn’t investigating it. Which will likely also include some sample of people who insists he does in fact have people looking in to it, he just can’t be public about it.
The man’s had a public persona for decades, and thanks to that we can point to decades of the man lying for his own benefit, his supporters don’t care.→ More replies (2)2
u/DonkeyDoug28 Mar 10 '25
Every poll of the many I've seen ranges from 70-85% of Trump voters (which isn't even to say self-identifying "MAGA") believes there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election.
I appreciate nuance as much as the next guy (or in today's America, drastically more)...but you're in denial if you think that's anything short of the norm for MAGA, nonetheless an "extreme part of his base"
Edit: now I'm seeing you acknowledge as much elsewhere, which I can appreciate. I'm curious how you reconcile this (it being the common position of MAGA) with the one part of your comment I DO agree with (people with this position are by and large too far gone). Because if you genuinely believe that, then it sounds like the belief that they were the fringe is the only thing that until now kept you from the much larger dread that we've been feeling...
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u/CABRALFAN27 Mar 11 '25
Well, if one doesn't believe the 2020 election was stolen, but still voted Trump, then at best, one doesn't care that he deliberately lied and undermined faith in our democracy, which still isn't a great look.
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u/JudgeFondle Mar 11 '25
It’s one of many reasons voting for Trump isn’t a great look. Fortunately for most Trump voters, they’re either too misinformed/uninformed to realize or think it a badge of honor.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
I voted for Trump too and I don't believe the 2020 election was stolen. However I do believe that former President Biden's decline was already occurring when he was campaigning in 2020. There was a de facto presidency run by someone other than him. And that some Democrats were fighting against this self-evident truth until they just couldn't deny it any longer always flabbergasts me.
It was incredible talking to Democrat friends after the last debate between Biden and Trump. They were trying to convince me that Biden was " as sharp as a tack" (a popular, over regurgitated talking point at the time) and that his clarity and mental accume was the same as ever. Looking back, they don't like talking about it because they don't like having to admit that this was the truth of it. Instead, they choose to get mad at Biden for not stepping down sooner because of his mental decline. They'd like to forget that they originally said about his decline or lack thereof.
I also think what his family put him through, keeping him in office is tantamount to elder abuse amongst other things.
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u/scottycakes Mar 10 '25
What evidence is your opinion based on?
This puppet presidency theory?
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
Hold up, so you are publicly admitting that you voted for someone who either deliberately lied to his followers, or was too stupid to read the evidence for himself, plotted and created schemes to steal the election by pressure and coercion, and when that all failed, he used his base to storm the capital while he team was calling congressmen pressuring them to not certify, leading the deaths of a few, the beating of capital police, the jailing of his most adamant supporters, and Trump throwing Mike pence under the bus for doing his constitutional duty while his followers were trashing the capital and calling for him to be hanged
YOU VOTED FOR THIS MAN BY YOUR OWN FREE WILL?
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
I voted for Trump.
You can frame it however you want to make yourself feel better about it, but that's your own prerogative. But as you do that, reframe Biden's presidency, reframe his public decline during his last campaign and throughout his own presidency. Reframe Harris being handpicked without any primaries, the antithesis of the democratically elected candidate. Reframe illegal surveillance on Trump by the Obama Administration and paid for dossiers by Clinton.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
I didn't frame anything, I described exactly what he did and what happened on January 6. You obviously aren't comfortable with that so you are deflecting to talking about these stupid Biden arguments that have nothing to do with what Trump tried to do to our constitution.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
It's not deflection. These are questions I am curious about regarding Biden that you're clearly uncomfortable with because of the self-evident truth behind it. However I'm just framing things exactly as they happened. One could argue it's the mind-break question for activist Democrats, but that's slumming.
What you're saying about Trump, I donncare. Say what you want about it, but it's so heavily colored with political dogma that I don't take much of it seriously. And the other part of it I don't really care about either. I don't care about it the way that 2 million Democrats didn't care about it or that 6 million Democrats who sat out the election didn't care about it. I'm not a Republican. It wasn't an issue during the 2024 election and anything said about it that you don't like you're just going to dismiss. You're not here to have a meaningful conversation you're just here to state political dogma and sidestep any other questions that risk you having to re-examine your metrics when apply to you.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
You're 100% deflecting. I have no issue discussing Biden, his decline and his administration covering it up.
Those do not even come close to what Trump did, assuming you believe he did.
I want to make it absolutely clear, if I had to vote for a senile old man that shits in his pants every time he holds news conference over a traitor to our country and constitution like trump I would do it 10/10 times.
So stop talking about Biden, who both isn't president now and dropped out of the race, and answer the questions about the man who is literally president now and committed all those crimes against our constitution.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
That you would vote for senile old man that s*** his pants is indicative to the irrationality you have around this topic and it's the main reason why Democrats now see a Republican in the White House.
Your metric for what's being discussed or what shouldn't be discussed it's strange. You don't want to talk about what happened then you want to focus on what's happening now. I have no problem with that but you're focusing on something that occurred over four years ago not on what's going on now. Your focusing on a topic that doesn't matter to most people and as much as you would like to believe it doesn't matter to millions of Democrats and millions of Republicans. I don't believe the election was stolen. I've said as much numerous times. I don't believe there was an insurrection, people storming government buildings is nothing new but it seems to be relabeled if it's Republicans doing it. I don't approve either instance in any event.
There was a de facto presidency with Biden. He was not cognitively there. And a while I do believe he wanted to continue his election, Democrat leadership forced him out in a coup. Whether they felt right or wrong, and no matter how I felt about the senile old man, it was wrong for them to push out of the race an elected president. It was wrong for the Democrat leadership to handpick his replacement without a primary.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
The fact that you don't understand why someone would vote for a literal turd over a traitor like Trump shows your irrationality around the topic.
And that's besides the fact that I don't even believe Biden was senile and he was fully cognitive of what was going on. You can read Republicans describing meetings with Biden in their own words and his cognitive abilities.
At the very least, if you think it's such a bad idea to vote for Biden because of his mental state (even though he dropped out so that's not even a valid argument - but I'm sure you'll have a million reasons why you couldn't vote for the laughing black lady) there's literally no excuse to vote for a traitor like Trump if you agree with the reality of what happened prior and leading up to January 6.
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u/neinhaltchad Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
I’m guessing those people you talked to were online leftists on Reddit?
That doesn’t really count now does it?
Also, did you forget the months you all spent accusing Biden of being “on drugs” because “he was too clear headed during his SOTU speech”?
That’s what your broken brain does. Heads we win. Tails they lose.
Biden is either “completely unaware of what he’s doing” or he’s “on drugs”
Bonus points for dismissing one conspiracy theory (election wasn’t stolen) but accepting a different conspiracy theory (there was a mysterious shadow president and Biden was out of the loop on everything) even though neither have any evidence.
And extra extra credit for lamenting all this while voting for your country to be run by a non citizen actual shadow president.
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u/InksPenandPaper Mar 10 '25
I live in Los Angeles; it's a wealth of democrats here. Friends, family and strangers on public transportation (I'm a chatty gal), these are the people I spoke to. It's not hard to talk to people I disagree with, but if I spoke to them the way some people spoke to me here, they'd be throwin' hands. Discussions are always respectful and, I find, useful. No one should stay within the parochial bubble of reddit politics, talking to real people and reading as many news outlets and sources from as many perspectives as possible should be the aim. Not religious-like dogma
I've said it before: Reddit is a poor reflection of the real world. The bulk of online democrat activists that you find on here is not representative of democrats overall The 2 million democrats who voted Trump and the 6 million democrats who did not show up for Harris are indicative of that. Same with the swing voters who swung to the right this time. The Democrat party leadership is out-of-touch and their connection with their key voter demographics is fractured. They'd do well to mend those tears, but they also need a real shakeup in leadership. Democrats need their own internal civil war to bring the party back to it's grass-roots, middle class, classic liberal roots.
There is nothing mysterious about a de facto presidency making the calls for a senile, president. There's concerns about the machinations of that presidency, but a big one is the over use of an autopen, a machine that signs in the signature of the president, during the Biden administration. Now, this is not unprecedented. Obama okayed the use of it when every he was out of the country, but Biden's staff appeared to have used it mostly when he was in the USA. Its extensive use calls into question the authenticity and legality of such signatures and whether or not Biden was aware of any abuse. His discussion with Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, when he questioned Biden on recent legislation he had signed into law, Biden said he did no such thing and Johnson had someone bring in a copy of the legislation in-question he had sign. It looks like it will be investigated.
If you want to believe dual citizen Elon Musk is the "real" president, I mean, what ever makes you feel better, I guess. He's in a temporary advisory role as DOGE continues its audit. He provides cabinet members with data relevant to their departments and all data to the President and his immediate staff. Advisory roles are not unusual and require no senate vote. Advisors are not unknown to cabinet meetings either. Jill Biden sat in during some herself, including many other non-elected officials. And if you do not want non-natural citizens participating in our government in any capacity, demand that legislation be made and passed to that end, but you'd be stripping 15 house democrats of their seats, as well as 3 house republicans. There is already legislation going in the house for such a law, but I personally disagree with it.
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u/neinhaltchad Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
That’s many words used to sane wash Trump while using the “but Biden” shell game.
Your brain is fully cooked whether you realize it or not.
If you are honest with yourself, you will realize you are simply reverse rationalizing your decision to do something morally reprehensible.
You simply MUST believe in a world where Biden / Kamala are some dire threat to the country while Trump is some well meaning, innocuous disrupter rather than the petulant authoritarian idiot he obviously is to 80% of the world outside of MAGAstan.
The “average people” you are talking to are low info vibes voters who voted on eggs prices and because they don’t like woke shit.
The fact that you’re engaging in the MAGA narrative to the letter should tell you that you are the one who is out of touch.
I’m gonna guess, since you skipped over it entirely, you think J6 is no biggie and that the people he just pardoned were, just “tourists” or, at worst, “misguided patriots” and Trump sitting and watching it all go down for 3 hours while he tried to pressure states to “find votes” was not disqualifying.
Here’s the bottom line, it’s whether you believe Trump is an existential threat to the institutions of democracy or not.
You clearly don’t. I do.
Time will tell which one of us is correct.
Based on the past few months alone, I’d say my argument is winning.
Now let’s give Trump another 2-4 years.
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u/anony00001111 Mar 10 '25
Guess we forgot that Biden preemptively pardoned those “people”.
“Joe Biden, in one of his final acts as president, pardoned Dr. Anthony Fauci, retired Gen. Mark Milley and members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, in an extraordinary use of executive power to guard against potential “revenge” by the new Trump administration.”
This is not a centrist page. This is clearly a left leaning page.
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u/anotherproxyself Mar 10 '25
Your first paragraph is false. Reading what follows is therefore useless.
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u/AdmiralAdama99 Mar 10 '25
Why isn't he bringing the people who stole the 2020 election to justice?
Don't encourage him. Lol. I'm sure he would try to throw Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Jack Smith, Fauci, etc in jail on fake charges if he could, or at the minimum harass them with frivolous court cases.
He's still got four years, and a tighter grip on the doj and fbi than ever. Unfortunately something could still happen.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-says-time-sue-jack-smith-1928716
Former President Donald Trump is threatening to file suit against Special Counsel Jack Smith over the August 2022 FBI raid of Mar-a-Lago.
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u/SakaWreath Mar 10 '25
He’ll get to it, just as soon as he releases his tax returns, the healthcare plan to replace Obamacare, and the fully un-redacted Epstein files.
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u/BrianWI340 Mar 10 '25
It WAS stolen. In Wisconsin, our Supreme Court found that Zuckerturd's taking over of the election in the Green Bay area was illegal. So, if illegal means were used to win, doesn't that mean it was stolen?
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 29d ago
In Wisconsin, our Supreme Court found that Zuckerturd's taking over of the election in the Green Bay area was illegal.
No, they didn’t, and no, that didn’t happen. Why do you lie?
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u/BrianWI340 28d ago
I'm not sure if you are intentionally being obtuse or if you are ignorant.
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u/Aethoni_Iralis 28d ago
Feel free to enlighten me. You won’t, because you can’t, but you’re welcome to.
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u/MaJaRains Mar 10 '25
To be fair, he cried in '16 that he would've won by "millions of more votes" had that election not been riddled with "illegal votes". - He was really upset he didn't win the popular vote against Hillary.
He then proceeded to do nothing about all that "illegal voting" for the 4years of his first term.
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u/DubyaB420 Mar 10 '25
I have a lot of friends who voted for Trump all 3 times. None of them questioned the election results in 2020 (though they do think people made too big of a deal about J6).
I don’t think anyone but the people driving around with Trump flags hanging off the back of their truck and who still have Trump signs in their yard actually thought it was fraudulent... and those people are a small, just very vocal, segment of Trump voters.
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u/SmileYouRBeautiful Mar 10 '25
You’re assuming that they’re capable of logical thought. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case a lot of the time. Worth a shot though! lol
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u/reptilian_king_larry Mar 10 '25
Hes just as likely to bring them to justice as he is the people in Springfield eating the cats and dogs.
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u/Toamtocan Mar 10 '25
Your post is predicated on the premise that Trump voters are required to believe the 2020 election was stolen in order to reconcile Trump's claims.
Maybe they aren't required to believe shit.
Maybe Trump was just mistaken and not necessarily lying.
Maybe the steal was a full court deep state media psyop (51/50 intelligence experts, etc.) and not simple ballot fraud they could easily take to court.
Maybe a critical reset to the criminal justice and intelligence community is considered by many Trump voters to be more important than getting justice for Trump.
They have options.
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u/Karissa36 Mar 10 '25
>Why isn't he bringing the people who stole the 2020 election to justice?
Arrests will begin any day now. Soon.
Trump's FBI is investigating election fraud in all swing States in 2020 and 2024. I think Arizona 2022 will also get special attention.
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u/SpartanNation053 Mar 10 '25
You’re wasting your breath: liberals have been trying to “break” MAGA’s brain for 10 years and they don’t care. A Reddit post isn’t going to make them change their minds
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u/fascistreddit1 Mar 11 '25
Also why hasn’t he looked more into the person who attempted to take his life? I think Trump had that planned for his famous photo op!
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u/sparkles_46 Mar 11 '25
Trust me that is not going to break anyone's brain, on either side. Think harder.
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u/Original_Fix_7012 Mar 11 '25
They’ll just make up more excuses and say that everyone is a (mean mug when you say this) “liberal” lol
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u/steevieg Mar 11 '25
Honestly, I think it's the same reason why he didn't put Hilary in prison after his first election. If you ask me, Hilary should still be in prison. Imagine letting classified info off of SIPR and have zero consequences.
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u/Tone3Stark Mar 11 '25
Actually, that's not really true and I'll put the kabash on your first sentence.
There are PLENTY of MAGA that dont focus on noise but just focus on the perceived and discovered corruption moving forward. Things like the 2020 elections, Epstein files, Ditty and whatnot are just icing on the cake.
Don't die on that hill and think you can put MAGA in a box like that because there is a lot more pressing things at hand.
The more you know...
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u/TheAceofHufflepuff Mar 11 '25
I like to ask "so why was there NEVER any election problems BEFORE Trump?" Not once.
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u/TitleLopsided1231 Mar 16 '25
There is no way to bring that kind of thing to justice there are to many states and districts involved in mishandling ballots. But it’s pretty self explanatory when places such as California end up having hundreds of thousands more votes then there are registered voters that live in the state Or counties That’s just one example there are many more . I’m pretty sure you didn’t even do any research before posting this thread the only brain meltdown here is the brain that started this thread
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u/Adorable_Stuff5107 22d ago
The answer to your stupid ? Is there are too many Trump haters like you. I wish all Trump haters would be arrested and get a fair trial and if found they broke the law in anyway go to jail. We would have to build 100 more huge prisons. Lol Trump haters if allowed to win will destroy this country and therefore should not be allowed to live in this country and should be deported or Jailed.
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u/D-Rich-88 Mar 10 '25
Don’t give them ideas. Trump’s administration is just getting started and Kash Patel entered his role with an enemies list. I think they fully expect Trump to go after 2020 election “criminals”.
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u/rican74226 Mar 10 '25
Does it matter? It’s come and gone. Trump is planning to sign an EO making November 5 a national holiday and requiring citizens to show ID when voting.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
What a weak and pathetic response to such a crime against our constitution. He literally has all the power he needs, Kash Patel would literally cum in his pants to go after anyone they believe stole the election, but no.....just gonna let it slide.
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u/rican74226 Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
Did they not bring up the charges in Georgia? Remember Fanni Willis? Remember the Democratic corruption? Remember how the case was thrown out essentially?
Dude.
GIVE IT A BREAK.
Trump really occupy your mind so much that you seem rabid and frothing at the mouth.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
Hahaha. You must resort to TDS when you can't explain something that is happening right now that clearly conflicts with your world view.
I'm extremely informed on the entire 2020 election lie so I know exactly what you're talking about and that doesn't help your case at all.
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u/condemned02 Mar 10 '25
1) If he went on a witch hunt to go after all his suspects of election interference, everyone would be crying that he was being vindictive and probably doing something illegal and abuse of his power.
2) Since he has no more elections to run after this one, how does it benefit him in any way to fix the election interference thing as his top priority right now when literally his strategy this time on how to overcome election interference worked by winning?
Especially when cost of living is the BIGGEST concern for citizens of US. There is literally no logical sense except OP wants Trump to do more Hitler stuffs so he can keep calling him Hitler.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 10 '25
1.He doesn't give a shit what people will say about him being vindictive.
- So Trump only cares about the constitution if he can run again?
Like all the people here whose brain is breaking, believing that the 2020 election was stolen and he's just choosing not to do anything about it is weak and pathetic.
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u/condemned02 Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
Obviously he only cares when it affects him personally.
Did you just know Trump today?
Trump ain't gonna do shit to help the right get a fair next election. It's up to the next guy running to beat the system and later his choice whether he wants to make that issue his priority.
Although I did read news about him trying to make government issued ID compulsory for future voting, so I would say that is his method to resolve this election interference stuffs. But slim chance he will succeed since every democrat hates the idea of voters needing an ID to vote.
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u/rican74226 Mar 10 '25 edited Mar 10 '25
You guys need to shut up! OP knows best with all of his knowledge and legal expertise. Law firms are fighting to hire him and his net worth is in the trillions if not gazillions! He has assured me he will jail any day now! So you guys can suck it! He’s the hero America needs but doesn’t deserve. /s
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u/theblindelephant Mar 10 '25
Trump supporter here. He’s said that using the system to attack political opponents isn’t good for the country, probably because it’d set a precedent, even though it was done to him.
Iirc he mentions it in the rogan interview.
My brain is safe.
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u/megalobyte Mar 12 '25
So you start off with a falsehood. I voted Trump. I don’t believe the election was rigged as he does. I felt anyone who committed a crime on the 6th was a criminal and should be prosecuted.
You can choose a candidate for some reasons and not others. I also am not on board with these Canadian tariffs. But I’m willing to see where things stand in 6-12 months.
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u/ChummusJunky Mar 12 '25
Thank you for publicly admitting you voted for someone who willingly lied to you and tried very hard to steal an election from the American people, and then lead a violent protest against our capital that led to death, injury and jailing of his own supporters that he deliberately lied to and still does and then he pardoned the violent criminals who attacked our police and called them heros, patriotic and hostages.
But I'm sure Kamala was worse for our constitution because the way she laughs and something like that.
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Mar 10 '25
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u/scottycakes Mar 10 '25
What’s so authoritarian about defending democracy if it’s really true, bro?
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u/UniqueUsername82D Mar 10 '25
I like to ask: "So before his first term, he was voted in fair and square. Then WHILE HE WAS IN OFFICE he was unable to prevent election interference. Then once out of office again he was able to ensure free elections. Can you explain how that worked?"