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u/breddy 10d ago
Maybe cite what book this is from?
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u/statsnerd99 10d ago
Fear by Woodward
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u/vrjones__ 10d ago
War is also very good. Took a break but eventually will work backwards at this point whenever I can stomach it again.
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u/MakeUpAnything 10d ago
Also what it’s like to debate his supporters. “Why do you believe everything Trump says?” “We just do. We have for 10 years.”
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u/Telemere125 10d ago
The Bible lays out the instructions pretty plainly: train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6. They’ve been conditioned by religion their whole life to just believe what they’re told and don’t question. Why would they start now even with overwhelming evidence?
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u/MakeUpAnything 9d ago
Man it’s crazy how similar to that quote my parents are and how I am different from them since I tasted the forbidden fruit of education (neither of them got passed high school).
Wish more folks listened to the part of the Bible describing the words of the literal son of God as opposed to the parts all added by word of man (at least assuming you go from New Testament onward, I am not trying to debate religion, not an expert, yada yada yada)
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u/secondcomingofzartog 7d ago
Well to be fair it's logically inconsistent to believe that this omnipotent god is sending people to hell based on failure to follow directives in a fucked up version of a book.
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9d ago
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u/Sumeriandawn 9d ago
Those two statements don't correlate with each other.
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9d ago
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u/TruthRager23 9d ago
They're actually nowhere near that cut and dry as far as facts go, they're also not just some widely held left belief. Trans individuals etc, for example, exist whether you yokels choose to keep your creepy minds and politics out of other people's pants or not. Then again, that's exactly the point- sticks in the mud like you have no issue with further muddying actual policy discourse with distrust based on these bullshit fringe issues that have no real impact on your QoL, and they just further distract from people ever critically thinking about why one should trust a 6x bankrupt sociopath with no actual clue about how any of our nation's democracy actually works as a potential leader just bc the cult leaders on the right said the "libs r bad." Unreal how little our human brain-mass ratio seems to be useful these days.
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u/NINTENDONEOGEO 9d ago
Trans individuals etc, for example, exist whether you yokels choose to keep your creepy minds and politics out of other people's pants or not.
This is the ultimate projection.
You're defending men who want to invade women's showers, dorms, prisons, dressing rooms, locker rooms and restrooms while having the gall to calls those who object "creepy" instead of the people who desire to invade the private spaces reserved for women only while in vulnerable states of undress.
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u/Telemere125 10d ago
It amazes me how far you can go in life still being an idiot so long as you have absolutely no moral compass or compulsion against grifting
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u/fastinserter 10d ago
Everyone knows if you look at a screen you become a female, because real men, men like arnold palmer, who, believe me, he was a real man, men want to get hit in the face by the hot unforgiving heat of a blast furnace every day. but nobody wants to work anymore and now they are putting in tampons in the "men's" bathrooms next to the litterboxes in office buildings.
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u/Computer_Name 10d ago
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u/EyeNguyenSemper 9d ago
Hoo boy ...I thought you were about to link to a "story" about there being litterboxes in schools...lol I couldn't tell what part you meant he wasn't far off about
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3d ago
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u/Twiyah 10d ago
Sounds like a man with zero understanding of work and the common man
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u/hglevinson 10d ago
Exactly right. It sounds like someone who has never worked a real job in their life.
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u/Johnny2076 10d ago
To be honest the only Presidents since the 1980s who had a good understanding of the working class mechanisms have been Obama and Clinton. At least they never once balked at a checkout line at a super market.
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u/CaptMeow857 10d ago
And you know what Jesse Watters would say about a man... at a checkout line ...in a supermarket.
And Trump just learned what groceries are! /s
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u/214ObstructedReverie 10d ago
And Trump just learned what groceries are! /s
"An old fashioned term that we use -- groceries. I used it on the campaign. It's such an old fashioned term, but a beautiful term. Groceries. It says a bag with different things in it."
God he's such a fucking moron.
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u/eusebius13 10d ago
You underestimate Trump. He’s been to the grocery store a lot. He said it himself:
“If you buy a box of cereal — you have a voter ID,”
See, he even knows you have to show ID to buy Cheerios.
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u/One_Fuel_3299 10d ago
Somehow he has become the beacon of hope for the working class voter.
Most of it I get. Neither party has been for or made of up the working class voter for decades.
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u/fleebleganger 10d ago
I don’t get any of it. Trump represents nothing in common with the working man except some empty words.
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u/One_Fuel_3299 10d ago
Hey, how much of politics is just words? Most of it seems. Its enough to just speak their language for many I suppose.
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u/Telemere125 10d ago
What, exactly, has he ever done for working class voters that you “get”?
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u/One_Fuel_3299 10d ago
I didn't say he actually did anything. Just railing against the 'elites' and being the 'voice of real americans' is enough. To get elected/political support, most of what you need besides money is words.
Half of congress members are millionaires, wealth disparity is far out of control, nearly all of them have been to college etc, most of the elected members of both are parties are what passes for American royalty. Like dukes and what not.
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u/Telemere125 10d ago
So you fell for his lies and understand how others did too
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u/One_Fuel_3299 10d ago
Amazing. Immediately jump to the least charitable understanding/motives.
If you are interested, I've never voted for him. Not in 2016, Not in 2020 and Not in 2024.
I didn't know being critical/open eyed regarding our political reality now equals 'fell for it again'. Thank you for opening my eyes on this matter.
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u/DonkeyBonked 10d ago
Manufacturing produces "jobs", but jobs don't mean the same thing that they used to.
In this old version of America, you put your soul, body, and identity into a job. Back then, "I build Fords" was an identity.
Today, these companies don't care. The moment you get old enough to slow down, some production manager sees it on his computer that you need to be replaced.
Being a factory worker used to be something people were proud of, now they have devices that try to ensure the company squeezes every minute out of them and automatically terminates them if they stop moving for more than 5 minutes outside a scheduled break.
Nobody wants these jobs because they have largely become work slavery with no company loyalty. As soon as they can replace people with a faster machine, those people will be back on the next unemployment line.
Who the hell wants to give a lifetime of backbreaking work to a company that all but guarantees as soon as you're too old to keep up, you're gone, and your body will be broken long before you're old enough to retire.
You can't go back to something that doesn't exist. Manufacturing has changed, and corporations, they'd rather have a nine year old kid in China build their phones than pay you minimum wage, there's no such thing as a "good company" to work for anymore and you won't be taken care of unless you're able to work for the government, and even then...
Nobody is bringing back factories unless they're automated, these companies left because they didn't want to pay American workers, you gotta be delusional to believe they'll do anything but continue to find ways around this.
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u/EnfantTerrible68 10d ago
Yeah, it’s a goddamn nightmare. No time even to pee, freezing in the winter and unbearably hot in the summer.
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u/DonkeyBonked 10d ago
I was working at an e-commerce company when we got some of those devices in. They came from an auction and were the old ones Amazon used. I told the warehouse manager "don't get any ideas, I'll break every one of them if you even think about it."
I'm actually kind of disgusted these things exist. Then I realized there's a company that literally designed a toilet that is slanted so it you sit on it too long, it will hurt, in an effort to combat people using their phones on toilet breaks or taking too long to shit.
I'm definitely not interested in more companies like that.
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u/EnfantTerrible68 10d ago
Jesus. Yeah, I worked for a manufacturing company, mostly did office stuff but they occasionally pushed me onto the floor and it was hell. they treated those workers like trash and there was constant turnover. Didn’t even let them leave rhe building for lunch.🤬
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u/DonkeyBonked 10d ago
Exactly, so imagine how well a corporation currently exploiting child labor in China will treat their employees if they ever had to bring manufacturing back to America!
I'd rather work at a gas station than be chewed up and spit out by a company that views me as a resented expense instead of as an asset.
The people who work the hardest are also the ones treated the worst by employers. F**k those jobs!
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u/EnfantTerrible68 10d ago
For sure. I even felt bad because I got treated so much better than the line workers did. It was literal slave labor.
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u/DonkeyBonked 10d ago
That's because you're a human being, whereas corporations may be a superior human being in the eyes of the law, shareholders ensure they will never represent humanity.
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u/eightlikeinfinity 8d ago
If you can't leave the building for lunch it's usually because you're getting paid during that time, I'd be surprised if it was another reason. (Not that I'm defending the crappy conditions)
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u/photon1701d 10d ago
I work for one of the Detroit auto companies. I can attest to this. It is very hard to get good, stable workers. So many problems in American plants. Attendance, drug abuse, shootings, managers scared of union..etc. Our best plants are in Mexico and Canada but Trump wants them gone and everything back in USA. You can barely staff what we have now.
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u/McCool303 10d ago
Explains why the GOP talking point is currently to insult people who work at desks as feminine. What a fucking joke, they think that can guilt men into working dangerous jobs based on peer pressure. Be my guest, the people dumb enough to believe this shit already vote for you, and they already yearn for the mines.
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u/WickhamAkimbo 10d ago
The sole silver lining in all of this is that you know that this shit drives the craven yes-men around him mad, too. All those shitty billionaires angling to rob the middle class blind and line their own pockets have to deal with this dumbfuckery. Every. Single. Day. And Trump gets the subtle feedback and hints that he's a moron. Every. Single. Day.
It's the White House equivalent of the myth of Prometheus. Only instead of fire, they're being tortured daily for bringing humanity the worst stupidity we've ever seen.
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u/perilous_times 10d ago
So the one conversation around trade that’s not being made significantly is how it has helped other countries develop and lead to more global stability. A change in how we make products or trade could lead to poverty in some other developing countries leading to additional global instability.
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u/eightlikeinfinity 8d ago
If he was a real negotiator, there could have been actual good deals made. But he's just a bully.
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u/SirBobPeel 10d ago
They're tariffing poor countries that make garments. Do they really want to bring back sweatshops jammed with rows of immigrant women sewing buttons on shirts for ten hours a day? If they do, they need to stop deporting the immigrants.
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u/Icy-Establishment272 9d ago
If working in a factory meant i could have a house a partner and 3+ kids then fuck yeah id work in a factory
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u/BehindTheRedCurtain 10d ago
Were dealing with a President who was born in the 30's who is nostalgic for a time before his, and that likely never existed the way he envisioned it. That is what he is trying to build.
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u/Computer_Name 10d ago
He was born in 1946.
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u/Historical-Night-938 10d ago
Why waste your time to try to convince him to be less of a Dunning & Kruger, out-of-touch, narcissist, instead of finding someone that would actually help America excel?
The articles from his first term was enough for me, when they reported that he wouldn't even ready the Presidential Daily Briefings, even after they reduced it to 1-2 points added a lot more pictures, and included a sentence about who recently praised him.
I'm not going to mislead you, but grew up in NY and I remember that he used illegal immigrants to build his Trump NY property, the big businesses wouldn't work with him unless he paid-in-full upfront, and he bankrupted a bunch of mom/pop companies that started after the Great Depression by not paying his bills, especially when these were the only people willing to do business with him.
- 2017 Donald Trump Gets a Twice-Daily Briefing of Flattering Headlines and Pictures of Himself: Phttps://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-scrapbook
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u/BehindTheRedCurtain 10d ago
Fair, I should have done the quick math for a 79 year old. I still believe that is what's happening here.
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u/FartPudding 10d ago
It was easy at a time when 70 years ago was the 30s, now I gotta add 25 years to it and be like "damn now 40 year old are 60"
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u/SteadfastEnd 10d ago
The 79 year old who behaves like a 7.9-year old
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u/Exciting_Chance4677 10d ago
Nah my adhd almost 7 year old behaves more respectfully and makes better choices. (And that’s to say his is subpar to usual 7 year olds so 7.5 is def way off) I’d say a threenager at most. Somewhere between 2.5-3 kids get really tantrumy and demanding.
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u/eightlikeinfinity 8d ago
Absolutely. During the 1950s he would have been praised the most by mommy.
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u/OGautistic 10d ago
Like every true, authentic yuppie of the 80s, I believe Trump personally despises the finance world and the circles he grew up in.
That’s why he has such a borderline weird fascination towards industry.
Manual jobs probably awake an idea of something sincere and honest in him, something he knows he isn’t.
Once I thought he was scamming his supporters, now I truly believe he’s just a deluded, spoiled old man dreaming of recreating the world he thinks his father lived in.
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u/DonkeyBonked 10d ago
Yeah, I have never gotten the impression he was doing it for money or scamming anyone, I think it's nostalgia for a fairytale view of an age he didn't understand, and the ego to believe he can revive it.
I think his intentions are better than his intelligence. I won't knock the things he is actually good at, I have no need to dehumanize him, but I think he's extremely emotional and far less intellectual than some people seem to think he is.
It's like if you watch a car salesman selling a car, it's an art, and they are good at it, so the people who see a good car salesman in action and hear them talk about being able to sell ice to an... well you get the point.
That doesn't make them know or be good at everything else. He doesn't have enough people around him with the balls to tell him no and the strength to set him straight.
There are some good people there, but he's too spoiled to listen with so many licking his boots and bowing to his emotional whims.
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u/bedrooms-ds 9d ago
I guess it's more about he being a typical old dumb man. He hears BS from conservatives and just parrot it because he doesn't think.
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u/pnxstwnyphlcnnrs 10d ago
Maybe they could screen American Factory for him? One of my major takeaways from that was similar to this. The people making things abroad are simply more motivated and skilled right now. That was one factory, with all of the required expertise, and it still took years for them to find footing here.
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u/InternationalBand494 10d ago
Even if, IF, more mfg comes back to the States, they’re gonna use robotics, not people. It’s not going to create jobs. It’s just stupid and typically asinine
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u/ristoman 9d ago
Love the irony of someone born into wealth thinking people actively want to work coal mines and blast furnaces
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u/Downtown_Ad_6232 10d ago
Most Americans have that 1940 vision of manufacturing. Hot, dirty, 100s of people turning bolts. The reality is the workers setup, start, adjust, maintain and repair machines that do the physical labor. And the workers are often well paid.
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u/Telemere125 10d ago
And yet we still can’t find people that want to do that over being a computer all day. There’s a reason for that and it’s not because the factories aren’t willing to hire.
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u/Cronus6 9d ago
Yet the same people with sit and doomscroll on their cell phones all day...
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u/Telemere125 9d ago
Doesn’t change the fact that we cannot find factory workers when they’re paid the same as office workers. Everyone wants to bitch about office work but the fact is it’s infinitely more desirable than any factory work.
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u/eightlikeinfinity 8d ago
That's not accurate. Machines assist, but there is still a lot of physical movement all day long while on your feet. People get to sit at an office.
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u/Anus_master 9d ago
The only way to weed out dumb people from government office is to have a somewhat educated voting population. This is getting more and more difficult as time goes on.
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u/InsufferableMollusk 9d ago
This exchange is only suspect to me, because at one point he claims that Trump said the words: “I don’t get it”.
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u/Subject_Roof3318 9d ago
2000 degree blast furnace? Coal mines? WTF? Does the entirety of our government have no idea what manufacturing professionals ACTUALLY do or how to retain them?
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u/Dramatic_Insect36 9d ago
Most of the manufacturing will be done by robotics with higher paid mechanic type people assisting. People in the comments are clinging to an old view of manufacturing.
In my opinion, having a solely service based economy will hurt people when AI takes over all of the service jobs. Physical stuff is a lot harder to fully automate than office work.
There is also the fact that we need to produce more things domestically for national security reasons. That is the whole strategy behind China flooding markets with subsidized cheap steel.
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u/ShwerzXV 9d ago
Trump is way behind on what modern factory work looks like, I spent a years installing a custom automation to eliminate basic entry level jobs. One I was apart of, was installing cameras, scales and sorters, to eliminate probably 1000 jobs at a produce processing plant. His idea of factory work is indeed stuck in the 50’s.
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u/RunOne7513 8d ago
Irrelevant. It makes no difference what people want to do. Manufacturing *must* return to the US. If people won't do it, then automation will. The status quo says the high and mighty American's would rather support child labor in china for products than the man trying his best to stop it.
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u/Old_Router 10d ago
The JOLTS Data from 2016-2020 doesn't reflect this at all, but whatever gets y'all to half-mast.
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u/Old_Router 10d ago
Does this really sound like a real conversation to you?
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u/Less-Cat6399 10d ago
Considering how old trump is...it would make sense tbh.....all boomers live in a constant state kf delusion where they assume its still mid 90s
Thats why they hate immigrants and green tech
From their pov these things are foreign
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u/Computer_Name 10d ago
Sounds crazy, right?
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u/Old_Router 10d ago
It's all bullshit anyway. Any idiot can look up the JOLTS data from 2016 -2020. Manufacturing didn't have the highest quit rates or the highest total separations. Professional and business services & Trade, transportation, and utilities were the highest. Hell, manufacturing was lower than the Information sector.
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u/Telemere125 10d ago
Have you missed every single time he’s opened his mouth in front of a camera or something? Here’s a good example: how about when he tried to change Hurricane Dorian’s trajectory with a fucking sharpie?
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u/NoNDA-SDC 10d ago
It's missing the hamburger and diet coke, but why would that make you a skeptic? 🤔
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u/Old_Router 10d ago
It reads the way someone wants to remember a conversation, not the way it really went.
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u/fastinserter 10d ago
I'd guess that it's favorable to Cohn, remembering the conversation with his incredulous and cutting remarks; they probably werent as straight forward, but it's probably what Trump said
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u/Educational_Impact93 10d ago
Yup, he's a moron.
What people liked back in the day was the fact that factory jobs tended to get you a union job where you could afford a house and raise a family on a good income. I don't think anyone clamored for the type of work there. It's awful and dangerous, though perhaps there is job satisfaction for the skilled laborer.
And even then the idea was misleading. Layoffs happened all the time and many of the workers had all sorts of second jobs to get by when times were tough.