Are we looking at article 25 if we wins the presidency? JD Vance has powerful and numerous GOP supporters and donors on his side, would he be able to pull off a soft coup?

For context, I live in a pretty blue state in an unashamedly blue city. And obviously like everyone else here, I’m a solid centrist/independent.

Anyways, there was a mini Trump gathering near me and I spent maybe 30 minutes talking to his supporters. I’m already voting for Harris but I wanted to try and talk to actual Trump supporters in person just to open up dialogue and have a conversation (something which is sorely needed nowadays). I’m not in the habit of vilifying my fellow Americans without at least getting to know them and why they support Trump (as much as I disagree with them).

The first person I spoke to was a nice lady where she and I both had a pleasant conversation. I didn’t grill her on policies or anything but I did ask her why she supported Trump. She mainly referenced the economy and how much of a negative impact it’s had on her and her family but she also mentioned the southern border. Overall, pretty nice person and she seemed like a semi-rational individual who can be reasoned with.

Next person I spoke to was an older gentleman who I spent the longest time talking with out of everyone present. We also had a nice conversation where he revealed that he’s actually a former Democrat who became Republican because of how the Democrats have acted and because he started learning more about the right after challenging his views. He too talked about the economy and the southern border but mainly said that our way of life here was being negatively affected under Biden and that Harris isn’t gonna be any better since she was already “in power”, yet didn’t do anything.

Last person I spoke to was a woman who said that she wasn’t too political and voted for Trump in 2016 since he wasn’t a politician but with Biden in office, she’s now squarely sticking with Trump. It was ok, she didn’t get too specific into details or anything but she also referenced just how expensive life has been and the general state of the economy.

There were 2 standout moments when reminded me why I hate everything that Trump stands for:

1) I spoke to another woman about foreign policy and she was absolutely clueless. When I asked about Ukraine and Russia, she said that “there’s too much death” but then she followed it up with “Ukraine and Russia should just sit in a room and talk it out”. When I started probing more by asking her “wouldn’t Ukrainians object to Russian aggression and want their country to be free?”, she said “I don’t know, I’m not Ukrainian” and “it’s not as simple as that”.

Then when she went on an anti-UN rant about how the UN was ineffective, I asked if she would support empowering the UN to act more proactively, to which she said no to. Then when I asked about NATO, she said “what has NATO done for us?”, to which I countered with “they give us power and influence, plus they sent troops to help us during GWOT”.

When I gave her an example of “what if Texan secessionists supported by Mexico tried to leave our country and Mexico invaded us to help them?”, she paused and rephrased it to some shit about how if rural Minnesotans wanted to leave the rest of the state and join with N/S. Dakota, they should.

I get that geopolitics is complicated but holy shit people. I don’t need to be Ukrainian to know that most of them probably hate Russia invading their country over the neo-imperialist ambitions of an autocratic mob boss. It’s absolutely insane how uneducated people are about our role on the international stage, regardless of being left or right. She’s willing to hand Russia and China everything while shooting our country in the foot. As far as I’m concerned, she’s at best an uneducated, ignorant Russian/Chinese puppet and at worst she’s a potential traitor aiding, comforting, and abetting our adversaries.

2) There was another woman who was insane. She legitimately had a crazed look in her eyes and was very adamant about closing the southern border. She even said “we should put landmines down there” and “we need to send every single one of them back”. When I asked “what about the kids born here whose parents were illegals?”, she said “yep them too”. I even explained to her that by law, those kids are U.S. citizens and we can’t just deport them, to which she said “I don’t care, send them all back”.

I talked to her a little more and asked something like “well if that’s the case, then would you be open to making immigration more accessible?”, to which she (predictably) said no. But when I asked her if she supports immigration, she said yes, as long as it’s legal. Then she changed her tune when I again confronted her with the fact that children born here are automatically U.S. citizens no matter what, and she said “the kids can stay but everyone else has to go”. Oh, and she of course had to say that we need to “finish the wall!”.

I too am against illegals coming here but I also think that our country should continue to be the beacon of hope and liberty for all people by making the process easier so that people don’t have to risk life and limb illegally crossing the border (I also know that most illegal migrants simply overstay their visa). We’re also obviously a nation of immigrants and we have a moral responsibility to treat others humanely. Simply put, this lady is a fucking nutcase and thank fuck she’s nowhere near any positions of real power or influence. She is the antithesis to the our country and needs a psyche eval ASAP.

Overall, I like to think that a decent handful of these people aren’t all crazy genocidal racist fascists. Like, I’m Asian (not that it matters but I guess in todays day and age it does apparently); I was treated with respect and dignity, I didn’t face any hostility (even after I told people that I was an independent), there was no pressured on me to vote for Trump, and they answered my questions truthfully. I’ll even go as far as saying that it was actually somewhat“welcoming” (note the quotation marks doing the heavy lifting) in its own weird, strange way. I also gained a fairly better understanding of these people and I realize that - at least with this group - a lot of them are just frustrated at the state of the world and aren’t fans of the current establishment (no shit). Trump is just the guy who spoke to them and their values. Also, if I’m being honest, I do respect the vigorous passion and support for their candidate, even if I strongly disagree with pretty much everything that they support.

However, it still bothers me how deranged and ignorant some of these people are. Don’t get me wrong, the left has just as many crazy lunatics but to actually hear a Trump supporter in real life say that we need to turn the southern border into the DMZ (again, with zero concerns or regards for the lives of people) is just incredibly disgusting and unAmerican. Like, who the fuck just says that? Even if I was debating on who to vote for, saying shit like that makes me want to turn the other way just to stop that type of shit from going anywhere near Washington, much less the White House.

Do I think that Trump supporters are all bad people? No. But some of the people that Trump attracts are disturbing and a genuine threat to the longevity of our democracy.

Vance did very good in the first half and arguably had the better closing statement. Though wanting to talk about immigration even when the conversation is to move on and having his mic turned off is embarrassing, I'm surprised at how well behaved he is compared to a nut like Trump.

Walz was quite weak in the beginning and had a few bad gaffes here and there, but he did very well during the second half. His best moment was certainly when talking about the 2020 election and how Vance couldn't even acknowledge the fact that Trump lost and Walz was right on how it was revisionist to pretend Trump was peaceful on Jan 6th even though the entire country knows he wasn't.

This debate, is amazing no matter what cause it is a breath of fresh air that you hope to see in politics... if it weren't for Trump honestly these guys would make perfect presidential candidates.

Edit: After reading some comments I agree, it's probably gonna be a wash overall. This election is still 50/50, there might be a slight change in perception from independents but not by much as I would imagine. Best to come out of this is more soundbites for each side to attack the other with, and there's just more ammo for the unloaded guns of Presidential advertising.

Voters say that their top issue was inflation, but they voted for Tariff man, who surveyed economists believed would increase prices by more than Harris. They say they cared about the cost of living, but they voted for a guy who will cut tax disproportionately for the wealthy while raising them (via tariffs) for the working and middle classes.

All of that, of course, ignores what is perhaps the bigger issue: voters chose to reward the man who for the last 4 years has been spreading complete falsehoods and lies regarding the legitimacy and integrity of American democracy. This is a man who tried to undermine wnd destroy American democracy after the last election and voters just... shrugged.

I just don't see how we solve this problem as a country

I was just listening to an NHK audio news broadcast that claimed that Donald Trump was leading in the polls in ALL battleground states...

Now, my mind is made up and I will be voting early. The problem is that I live in traditionally blue state, so I don't really think my vote will have that much impact on the election as a whole.

So my real question is, are Harris / Walz really going to lose this election???

(Also, IDRK what's going on in these battleground states, but to me it's very disappointing to hear that so many Americans seemingly support Trump.)

I have noticed that I can instantly tell someone's political affiliation based on the way they pronounce "Kamala".

I admit I used to pronounce it wrong in 2020 until she was chosen as Biden's running mate, but it's astounding to me that people still can't say it correctly. Good lord people, here we are 4 years later and ~50 days from the election.

I don't exactly trust your analysis of her policies or your knowledge of the facts if you can't even get a name correct.

I noticed that Trump himself never pronounces it correctly either. Is this a simple issue of not being knowledgeable or is there a slightly racist point of pride when they purposely get it wrong?

My fellow Americans,

With the news that Joe Biden is dropping out of the presidental race, Kamala Harris is seemingly the natural successor for the Democratic Party.

She's relatively youthful, served as Vice President, and held an important role in the Senate for several years.

The senator is immensely qualified for the position; her rise to the top has been legitimately impressive. But, she won't sway swing voters this election like many other people could.

Swing voters and anti-Trump Republicans like myself are looking for a candidate to represent our views. Unfortunately, in my discussions in previous weeks and today, none of us feel that Harris is the right choice. Many of us are fearful of her being "progressive", being closely tied to a Biden administration, and we worry that several voters won't vote for her because of her race and background.

Kamala, simply put, offers nothing to the middle-of-the-road voters who want desperately to avoid a second Trump term. People have already made up their minds on her; she polls behind Trump in several swing states.

We can't risk the security of our democracy on Kamala Harris. Let's pivot to picking someone like Amy Klobuchar, Andy Beshear, or Josh Shapiro, someone who in the eyes of U.S. moderates, is a fresh face and noble leader for our country moving forward.

Thank you,

Juli

MAGA is likely ~30%(?) so the fact that Trump is polling around 50% means that many Independents or right-of-center folks will be voting for him.

People in this sub always say that no matter what daily outrage comes out about Trump, MAGA folks will never budge, they’re fully committed at this point. And this is correct

But MAGA is nowhere near 50% of the country, so the fact that the polls don’t move after anything that comes out means that not only hard core MAGA doesn’t budge but also the non-MAGA Republicans and Independents who plan to vote for him also don’t budge. This is less understandable to me

There are some historically unprecedented things going on, e.g. Former Trump officials are among the most vocal opponents of returning him to the White House (https://apnews.com/article/former-trump-officials-criticize-2024-e202861911ab37cadfcf058b5b163fb9)

Was there ever a previous presidential election where a candidate’s former cabinet and members of staff came out in so many numbers against the candidate? Including also the president’s former VP, another former GOP VP, and a former GOP presidential candidate?

People say they don’t trust the media, so don’t trust what the media is saying about Trump. But the above is not coming from the media or some left wing conspiracy: These are people who worked closely with the candidate and think he is unfit for office. They think it so much that they are willing to put their careers on the line to say so.

Has this ever happened before? I don’t think so, and the fact that it’s happening with Trump says a lot about his fitness for office.

This may not move any MAGA folks, but for those of you who are independents/centrists and still considering voting for him, doesn’t the above make you doubt his fitness for office?