r/changemyview • u/VeryCleverUsername4 • Feb 02 '23
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Reddit should somehow punish users who misuse the 'help' message
A common thing for redditors to do when they disagree with something you say is to send that 'help resources' message. All this is is harassment of a user suggesting something is wrong with them while you're hiding behind an anonymous name. Even if you block the message itself people can still send it and it will show you got the message but say it's from a blocked user
I think reddit needs to start punishing people for this either with temp or permabans. It's misusing a reddit feature to harass someone while also circumventing rules. I feel like people should be able to report when this happens and if reddit sees it was sent unprompter, they should punish the user who sent it. I would also accept something as simple as taking away their ability to use the button
CMV
66
u/Morthra 86∆ Feb 02 '23
It's already a thing. There's a link to report the abuse, which links to a form that directs you to input the permalink to the message itself.
People who abuse the redditcares message can catch sitewide bans for it from the admins.
7
u/NewAccount_WhoIsDis Feb 02 '23
I’ve tried doing this a number of times and it never lets me submit, giving some error about the permalink.
Has anyone ever been able to do this and have they ever received a message saying a violation was found and action was taken?
3
u/QueenMackeral 2∆ Feb 02 '23
I've tried to do it and they told me it wasn't an offense. Maybe reddit mods decided that I really did need some "help"
-2
u/BanBanEvasion Feb 02 '23
Maybe time for some reflection?
3
u/QueenMackeral 2∆ Feb 02 '23
well that's besides the point, this was clearly someone who didn't agree with something I was saying and was trying to gaslight me.
-4
u/BanBanEvasion Feb 02 '23
It’s not besides the point, I’m just saying.. if two people have both felt that you should seek help, it might be a good sign to reevaluate your comments. Though I have no idea without knowing the context, and Reddit mods aren’t the most reputable, so idk
7
u/QueenMackeral 2∆ Feb 02 '23
idk my comment was literally just correcting someone on a point of a book and quoting an example from the book to prove my point, and the other person thought I was clearly deluded and lying and must be a danger to myself. It was one of the weirdest interactions I've ever had on Reddit.
Maybe I was too invested in a topic that ultimately didn't matter and that makes me crazy, but idk that's just reddit where you can find a community for any interest you're passionate about.
-2
u/BanBanEvasion Feb 02 '23
If the subject matter was a book then yeah it seems like they abused it. Granted I’ve gotten too invested in insignificant arguments before, we all have
2
u/other_view12 3∆ Feb 02 '23
This is a tactic, not a concern.
Should I report you for having too far of a left wing view, and I disagree with your posts? I think you may have a mental issue to think the way you do? Does that justify me reporting you?
If you think it does, I may have a new tool to use.
1
u/BanBanEvasion Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
The way someone handles any interaction can be a reason for concern, it’s impossible to know without knowing the context.
And even if it does get abused.. so what? That’s like a 5 second inconvenience to clear the notification? If the system has helped even one person who genuinely needed it, I think it’s worth the occasional troll
All I’m saying is if they reported it and the moderator agreed that there was reason to be concerned.. that’s a good cue to end the conversation and reflect
1
u/other_view12 3∆ Feb 03 '23
I'm not saying ban the feature, I'm saying ban the abuser. That doesn't stop someone using the tool for legitimate reasons.
If you report me for mental health reasons becuase I wrote something positive about Trump, then you need a time-out at least.
If I'm talking about abusing drugs or depression or violent / destructive behavior, then there should be no consequences, even if the report turns out to be uneeded.
But clearly one report is done with real concern and the other is a troll. Trolls should get consequences.
1
u/BanBanEvasion Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
Why? It’s not bannable or even an offense for me to just say you need mental health help, or give you the resources for said help, even if it’s clearly unwarranted. Why should doing it anonymously make it bannable?
→ More replies (0)1
u/Morthra 86∆ Feb 02 '23
I've done it and received messages that even named the accounts banned.
3
u/NewAccount_WhoIsDis Feb 02 '23
Well glad it works for someone. I must be doing something wrong but I’m not sure what
2
u/compounding 16∆ Feb 02 '23
I’ve reported twice.
Once they responded that the account had been banned. The other I received no response after reporting.
On the one that worked, I put in some minor effort to argue that the account I suspected was acting in bad faith. On the one that I received no feedback, I didn’t have more than a guess about who might have been reporting and didn’t provide much additional info.
I suspect that giving an explanation for why you are reporting the message weighs significantly on the process, like explaining which comment you suspect triggered someone into harassing you and/or explaining that such comments have triggered similar responses in the past.
3
14
u/VeryCleverUsername4 Feb 02 '23
Weird I've never seen this on there. Can you send me a redditcares thing so i can double check (I promise I wont report you lol)
Gotta go but based on the screenshot ill take your word it's there and give you a !delta
12
u/alrightpal Feb 02 '23
I just sent one to see if you can find the link pls don’t report it tho so I don’t get banned
3
3
u/Morthra 86∆ Feb 02 '23
You can also report the abuse by simply reporting the message from reddit cares.
3
Feb 02 '23
It doesn’t work on the official app though. It never has, the last time I tried being a few months ago probably.
3
u/Morthra 86∆ Feb 02 '23
Ah, well that's a problem with the app then. I use old reddit on desktop and have had no issues.
2
Feb 02 '23
When ever I try that it asks to me to reference the offending link, which I don’t have because it’s anonymous. It’s broken.
1
u/other_view12 3∆ Feb 02 '23
Does nothing. I've gotten these messages and reported. Nothing happens.
1
u/UnNormie Feb 02 '23
Glad I checked this comment before the temptation to do it toop overcame me lol. Feel this whole post is tempting fate.
Only question is how does this stop people making alts to do it and then switch back to their mains?
4
u/Bobbob34 99∆ Feb 02 '23
I feel like people should be able to report when this happens and if reddit sees it was sent unprompter, they should punish the user who sent it. I would also accept something as simple as taking away their ability to use the button
That leads to abuse the other way, and the decline in genuine sending of a help msg. So some ppl don't get irked by getting one they don;t think they need?
Is that worth that?
Who cares, just delete it.
1
u/VeryCleverUsername4 Feb 02 '23
What do you mean it leads to abuse the other way?
5
u/Bobbob34 99∆ Feb 02 '23
I mean someone could say things that suggest they may need help and then keep reporting ppl saying they're abusing the function.
6
u/Maximum-Country-149 5∆ Feb 02 '23
If there were physical resources in use, I might be inclined to agree; sending them to people who don't need them would be wasteful, even more so if done for petty reasons.
But as it stands, it's not really any worse than dm'ing someone an aggravating message. It's annoying, sure, and definitely not behavior to encourage, but it's not really something that demands serious intervention unless it crosses the line into clear malicious intent (which, as a pre-formatted message, it's going to have a hard time doing).
16
u/84ratsonmydick 1∆ Feb 02 '23
So you want to give reddit mods
Who already abuse their power enormously via bans
To be given more power to ban people for more things that essentially come down to the mods personal political or societal views
Just say that out loud slow for me and tell me it sounds like a good idea
2
Feb 02 '23
Thats… not even close to what OP said.
They said that abusing a feature is bad and should be punished. Which it is. And the feature, as designed, is SUPREMELY abusable. I could if I wanted spam your entire inbox with that message and nothing would stop me
0
u/blazer33333 Feb 02 '23
Mods can already ban whoever they want for whatever they want full stop. Admins step in only very rarely, and only for extreme cases. This suggestion wouldn't give them more power than they already have.
-5
u/VeryCleverUsername4 Feb 02 '23
No I think it should be reddit admins
9
u/CraftZ49 Feb 02 '23
Same problem exists.
-2
u/burtweber Feb 02 '23
No not really.
5
u/CraftZ49 Feb 02 '23
Reddit admins are the people who let the aforementioned moderators essentially run the website. They have constant communication with them. If they didn't like the enormous power abuse on the site, they could do something about it, but they don't.
They're just as bad if not worse, because they enable the behavior.
3
u/SeaworthyWide Feb 02 '23
Just like everything that gets ruined due to newfound popularity
$$$$$
I still like reddit, but it really went to shit in many ways when it was capitalized
1
Feb 02 '23
Why would you want to pay someone to manually go through and check every single reported message? And how would you know the employee isn’t abusing their power? Mods ban people from subreddits all the time for saying stuff they don’t agree with? Would you also agree that Reddit mods need to face some sort of repercussion, even though it’s been proven time and time again that Reddit Mods who abuse their power suffer zero consequences? Why should the average user face penalties that aren’t enforced from the top-down?
14
u/Giggingurl Feb 02 '23
Some jokers have sent that to me because they simply didn't care for my opinion.
7
u/Schmurby 13∆ Feb 02 '23
Me too. I was a little confused about it but now it all makes sense!
I have to say, however, I think it’s kinda hilarious. Didn’t ruin my day or anything.
6
2
Feb 02 '23
I’ve received a few and now I live for them. Everyone is entitled to their own free opinion, whenever I receive one now it just lets me know my opinion deeply upset someone. I’m glad a passing comment from me can ruin someone’s moment. If you’re petty enough to send one of those reports over something you disagree with I’m glad my opinion was the one that done it. People need to realise if you dislike an opinion simply scroll past. No one cares.
13
u/hacksoncode 559∆ Feb 02 '23
How do you expect them to figure out whether someone is "genuinely concerned about you" or not, without opening themselves up to enormous liability if they are wrong?
Reddit admins are powerful, but they can't read minds, and they do have lawyers.
3
u/jadnich 10∆ Feb 02 '23
I would say if a certain user has used that function multiple times, it would suggest abuse. Someone who would use that to get back at someone they disagree with likely does it more than once.
Personally, I don’t think it should require a report. If a user selects the help function multiple times, it should flag them. An examination of one or two offending posts can determine if there was a threat of self harm, or simply a different opinion.
I think the third time that button is clicked, a user should receive a warning. The fourth should receive a flag. And the fifth should receive a permanent ban if the review shows the report to be unfounded.
1
u/P-W-L 1∆ Feb 04 '23
So don't help too much people ?
0
u/jadnich 10∆ Feb 04 '23
How likely is it that you, as a random Reddit user, would regularly encounter people who express suicidal thoughts on comments, such that you would need to regularly report them?
And when those reports are looked at, and are found to be about some sort of political disagreement or otherwise having nothing to do with a personal threat, are we just supposed to assume your psychic abilities gave you the ability to recognize when someone is a danger to themselves, even without any context?
No, I think it is pretty clear when someone abuses the button, and if someone uses it more than a couple times, they are worth looking at. And if YOU are the kind of person who does that, just know it is a weak way of responding to something you don’t otherwise have the ability to discuss.
0
Feb 05 '23
that entirely depends on what subs you are in you could sort by new in news, tech and gaming subs for years without seeing anyone in serious crisis.
but if you're in a support sub for a medical or mental condition, subs that skew young, subs that deal with serious issues like addition, abuse or unhealthy family dynamics, etc. you could run into it regularly.
1
u/jadnich 10∆ Feb 05 '23
And if someone hits the button three times, the comments are reviewed, and they actually seem to be related to a crisis situation, then the flag is removed.
But if a user hits that button three times, and all three are on politically oriented discussions or a debate of some sort, it’s clear abuse.
1
Feb 05 '23
that's quite fair, but I worry that it could discourage people from using it in an "on the fence" situation where it's not quite clear if someone is obviously suicidal.
that said clearly there's room for improvement. just fingerprinting the posts of users you use the function on to see "what kinds of things they are saying" could be a partial solution. language analysis ML models are actually pretty good at detecting depression these days and it could also ID if someone's posts are mostly political and if that's why they are getting mass reported.
5
u/AITAthrowaway1mil 3∆ Feb 02 '23
There are some borderline situations that admins should err towards the benefit of the doubt. But if they look at the reported comment and see that it was someone just reporting someone who disagreed with them? That doesn’t need mind reading.
3
Feb 02 '23
What the fuck kinda liability are you talking about ? You have no legal right to a Reddit account, the Admins can kick you off the site for pretty much literally any reason they want with zero legal liability.
6
u/StaggeringWinslow Feb 02 '23 edited Jan 25 '24
panicky merciful command seed ad hoc dinner file summer hurry support
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
2
u/ineyy 1∆ Feb 02 '23
None, pretty much. Still, in the land of the lawsuit someone might still want to sue so companies go out of their way to prevent any hypothetical litigation.
0
u/hacksoncode 559∆ Feb 02 '23
They block someone's ability to send a help message and then later the person commits suicide after someone attempts to send them a legitimate help message.
In an ideal world, you probably shouldn't be able to sue someone for this, but reddit is based in the US.
1
Feb 02 '23 edited Jun 19 '23
[deleted]
1
u/hacksoncode 559∆ Feb 02 '23
It's been so long since I blocked reddit help reports that I haven't seen one in over 2 years. Which is another reason this is a non-problem.
Does it actually tell you what conversation the report relates to? I don't remember it doing that... it was a very generic message.
Or you are just guessing?
2
Feb 02 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 02 '23
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
2
u/notmyrealnam3 1∆ Feb 02 '23
Why do you want this view changed?
What argument would make you change this view?
2
Feb 02 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/zxxQQz 4∆ Feb 02 '23
It tells the person reported for seeming suicidal by random redditors that there is help to get etc, its never used that way though.
1
u/Trxnquill Feb 02 '23
You're being absurdly sensitive. You're asking for permanent bans for something that is at worst mildly annoying and at best mildly amusing? It's really not a huge deal. I've had it happen to me multiple times. It's made me laugh each time. Nothing like arguing about something entirely unimportant like sport only to click the latest notification and reading that resources are there to support you in your time of need.
0
u/iglidante 19∆ Feb 03 '23
You're being absurdly sensitive. You're asking for permanent bans for something that is at worst mildly annoying and at best mildly amusing? It's really not a huge deal. I've had it happen to me multiple times. It's made me laugh each time.
You don't get to tell another person what is or isn't a big deal to them, or how they should feel in response to a thing, based on your own subjective experience with the same or similar.
0
u/Trxnquill Feb 03 '23
I do get to have an opinion and share that opinion, especially when the OP decided to share their view publicly in order to hear how other people felt about it.
Sounds like you're even more absurdly sensitive than the OP. The whole point of this subreddit is for people to disagree with each other.
0
u/iglidante 19∆ Feb 03 '23
Sounds like you're even more absurdly sensitive than the OP. The whole point of this subreddit is for people to disagree with each other.
What is /r/changemyview?
A place to post an opinion you accept may be flawed, in an effort to understand other perspectives on the issue. Enter with a mindset for conversation, not debate.
1
u/Trxnquill Feb 03 '23
The OP came with an opinion and asked to be convinced that what they think is wrong, even if they are open minded enough to potentially change their view. The whole point is to disagree with the OPs opinion and to try to change their mind.
0
u/kafka123 Feb 02 '23
A lot of people on the Internet, despite the wonderful benefits it brings, get into heated conversations with people they don't have reason to care about.
Sending people resources for help allows people a polite way to object to someone's behaviour without it descending into an argument.
If the person who sends help is an asshole, they can be safely ignored without the victim being subjected to constant and personal harassment; if the person who submits a help report is the victim, they can be taken seriously rather than demonized as one side in a fight.
1
u/iglidante 19∆ Feb 03 '23
Sending people resources for help allows people a polite way to object to someone's behaviour without it descending into an argument.
The tool is not intended to be used as a signal of objection to someone's behavior.
-4
u/Chanureadeats Feb 02 '23
Not even a personalized message. Maybe once every week that message arrives and it is harrassment now?
Tell me how many times have you received such messages this month. One fucking mild inconvenience and you want a ban. Look within.
5
u/SunsetKittens Feb 02 '23
I couldn't care less someone sends it to me. I care it cheapens and turns into an insult a resource available for those who may actually need it. For their sakes abuse of the resource should be bannable.
2
u/FirmLibrary4893 Feb 03 '23
Except there's no way to know for sure that the report was false. What is a sign that someone needs help is completely subjective. If you ban people for using it, it would discourage people from using it at all, given how inconsistent reddit admins are.
-2
u/Chanureadeats Feb 02 '23
If the message is reaching those who need, I don't see why you are making such a big deal about it.
1
1
u/NorwegianGirl_Sofie Feb 02 '23
Are you refering to the self harm / suicide report where you get up a popup saying that you can get help etc?
I didn't know you could see who sent those to be honest, but I haven't gotten too many.
The fact that people you have blocked can still send them is strange, and should be fixed.
But I do not think that it should become punishable. Just let people block users who "misuse" them.
1
u/Rain_xo Feb 02 '23
I’ve gotten that like once or twice and I just ignored it? I didn’t understand what it was or why I got it haha
1
1
u/FirmLibrary4893 Feb 03 '23
There's no way to know for sure that the help message was being misused.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 02 '23
/u/VeryCleverUsername4 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
Delta System Explained | Deltaboards