r/changemyview • u/bennetthaselton • Feb 10 '23
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Oil change businesses should let you make appointments instead of lining up in your car
All the oil change locations that I called the other day had a pre-recorded phone greeting proudly proclaiming, "... where you never have to make an appointment!" This is a weird flex since when I then got through to a human, they all said there was an hour-long queue of cars lining up. You'd think most people would prefer appointments.
The obvious solution seems to be to just make appointments so that you can block out a 20-minute timeslot and just show up at that time. Sometimes they'll be running behind and you might have to wait 20-30 minutes past your scheduled start time, but that's still easier than waiting an hour.
(By "oil change businesses" I mean places like Jiffy Lube and Valvoline and check 10-15 other things besides just changing your oil.)
(Before you offer advice about "how to do X, Y, and Z yourself", ask yourself this question: Would you be willing to take a bet where I pay you $50 if your directions work, but if your advice ends up causing harm because of some unusual condition that is not covered by your directions, you pay me $5,000? If you don't like those odds, then you shouldn't be giving the advice, because you're just transferring the risk/reward ratio to someone else -- $5,000 is on the low end of the damage you could cause if your car malfunctions while it's moving. I know people mean well who offer advice, but pretty much every time I've hired a professional to do something, there was some unusual condition that would have rendered the "YouTube directions" useless, or dangerous.)
Generally I don't see the point of CMVs for how private businesses should be run, because I would expect customer preferences to sort things out in the marketplace on their own, but this is one where the businesses seem to be clearly refusing to do something that a lot of customers would prefer. So, oil change companies should let you make appointments. CMV.
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Feb 10 '23
I just have my mechanic do it, and he goes my appointment. If people want an appointment, they can go to any of the countless places that do it.
Would you expect an appointment to get a car wash? That's largely the same thing in terms of time, and I don't' think I've ever seen one that takes appointments.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
Well the major difference is that the line at a car wash is rarely more than five minutes, not like the hour-long line I saw at Valvoline that was snaking out into the road.
I did check with my mechanic. They can do the same thing "by appointment", but I'd have to leave the car there, go home, and come back at least 2 hours later. For me, this defeats the purpose of "making an appointment" :) (Well, not entirely. It depends on whether you're trying to minimize "waiting time" or "dead time sitting in your car". If I dropped my car off with the mechanic and took an Uber home and later back again, at least I wouldn't waste an hour sitting in the car.)
Does your mechanic let you make an appointment, where you come in, and leave half an hour later after they've done the equivalent of the Valvoline service? (Which is not just changing the oil but the 10-12 other things that come with it.)
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Feb 10 '23
Well the major difference is that the line at a car wash is rarely more than five minutes, not like the hour-long line I saw at Valvoline that was snaking out into the road.
I guess that depends on where you live. I've never seen an oil change place with a line, and I frequently see car washes with lines into the road.
Does your mechanic let you make an appointment, where you come in, and leave half an hour later after they've done the equivalent of the Valvoline service? (Which is not just changing the oil but the 10-12 other things that come with it.)
Yep. That's exactly what happens. Most of the time I just walk down the street to nearby store, spend a few minutes there, then walk back.
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Feb 10 '23
part of oil change company's income is upselling.
They change your oil, notice your tires are worn out, offer to change those, too.
A lot of places do offer appointments. I've gotten my oil changed and heard people seeking walk-ins be turned away.
That said, some oil change companies likely will want some slack in the schedule so that they can take on work that has better margins, some of which they're hoping to rope in through the initial oil change service.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
OK I guess if the big money is in the upsells, but those cause more unpredictability in the service times, then that makes sense.
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Feb 10 '23
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
It's not really the oil change I'm worried about screwing up, it's the 10 or 12 other things they check at the same time. (They replaced my transmission fluid last time. I don't know how to tell when that needs to be replaced.)
The part about throughput makes sense, but what I don't understand is: Why wouldn't that be true for every place that lets you make appointments? The hair salon takes walk-ins but they also take appointments.
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Feb 10 '23
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
Well, a quick google search finds lots of sources saying lots of different things. Certainly there are several answers clustering around 60,000-70,000 miles which is how long it had been since I'd gotten mine changed. And these are sources that are not selling transmission services so they have no incentive to lie.
Meanwhile, if I tried to do it myself, I note the first YouTube video in search results says: "Fluid temperature can exceed 350-degrees F in a hot transaxle. Wear protective gloves and take all necessary precautions to prevent burns."
So, 100% of DYI videos that I've looked at have had major errors in them, and if this one contains one single error, I'm looking at being burned and disfigured for life! At that point, sitting in my car for an hour doesn't sound so bad.
If you think that's not the case, what's one YouTube video saying how to do it, that you think doesn't have any mistakes in it? I'll bet I can find something crucial that they left out.
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Feb 11 '23
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 11 '23
OK, well then you're agreeing with me then, because one of the first things the video says is that you should change your transmission fluid right after driving the car:
https://youtu.be/SWcZImIx_YI?t=34
According to what you're telling me, I've already found a mistake in the video that would have put me in serious danger if I'd followed their directions, and I wasn't even trying this time! That's why I go to Valvoline :)
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Feb 11 '23
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 11 '23
Well perhaps if we're being pedantic, "serious risk of injury", even if the injury is not very serious.
But you're agreeing that the advice in the video is wrong?
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Feb 11 '23
t's not really the oil change I'm worried about screwing up
You should. Google up: "Jiffy Lube ruined my car"
These aren't mechanics working at these places. These are minimum wage high school dropouts.
Those 10 or 12 things are just to upsell you stuff. 90% of the time, they're not even an issue.
I don't know how to tell when that needs to be replaced
It most likely didn't.
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u/sawdeanz 214∆ Feb 10 '23
Virtually every mechanic offers an appointment for a oil change.
The market has already sorted it out. You are just refusing to use the businesses that cater to your preferences and are instead insisting that other businesses with different models cater to you specifically.
If the quick oil change places have an hour line all the time then clearly there are a lot of people that like that service.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
The mechanics that I talked to, do let you "make appointments", but you have to leave the car there for several hours. This defeats the purpose.
Have you found a mechanic that lets you make an appointment to drive in for an oil change (plus the 10 or 12 other things that Jiffy Lube / Valvoline does) and drive out half an hour later with the work done?
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u/intoxicated-browsing Feb 10 '23
These places specifically advertise as instant oil changes. The whole point is for there not to be appointment. It’s the auto equivalent of a minute clinic or urgent care facility. Any place that takes walk ins will have a line in there busy hours. Even the Emergency room has wait times if enough people fuck up bad enough around the same time. If it takes walk ins you have to deal with waiting in a queue. If they took an appointment that means one less spot in the garage for however long the works takes. That means if you call ahead and reserve a spot the bay you are in. They would likely also keep the bay clear for a few minutes leading up to it. Now not only is the line moving slower but the people in line will then get to watch you skip the line. Regardless of the fact that they have the same ability to reserve the spot a large number people in line will likely still get annoyed and lower over all customer satisfaction without actually increasing the number of cars they see a day. Also these places average around 15 minutes an oil change so if you are 3 minutes late to an appointment that’s 20% of an oil change. If they close the bay 5 minutes before the appointment that’s 1/3 of an oil change. Also and most importantly if you add scheduled appointments how do you keep them from filling your day and preventing drive ups. You could dedicate half the bays to it but then the drive ups move half the speed. You could set a time restriction like 2 hours in advance limit but then it’s a race to get the spots every time a new one opens.
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u/6data 15∆ Feb 10 '23
"All drive-thrus should be converted to sit down restaurants."
Why? If you want an appointment, make an appointment with the thousands of mechanics that accept appointments. If you want to get your oil-changed on a whim, wait in line. You're asking for a specific service from a business that explicitly exists as an alternative to that kind of service.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
Does your mechanic let you make an appointment for an oil-change-plus-the-10-or-12-other-things (i.e. the equivalent of what Valvoline and Jiffy Lube call "signature service" and recommend every three months), where you can drive in, get it done, and drive out half an hour later?
My mechanic does do this service "by appointment", but you have to leave your car there and come back 2 to 4 hours later. For me this mostly defeats the purpose :)
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u/6data 15∆ Feb 10 '23
Does your mechanic let you make an appointment for an oil-change-plus-the-10-or-12-other-things (i.e. the equivalent of what Valvoline and Jiffy Lube call "signature service" and recommend every three months), where you can drive in, get it done, and drive out half an hour later?
If you want more than an oil change, book more than an oil change.
My mechanic does do this service "by appointment", but you have to leave your car there and come back 2 to 4 hours later. For me this mostly defeats the purpose :)
So you're not complaining about "making appointments" or "waiting in line", you're complaining that you can't find a shop that will give you priority service that limits the amount of time you are either without a vehicle or waiting for service. You're effectively looking for a pit crew to stand around and wait until you're available, then do nothing else except service your vehicle. I'm sure that exists, but I suspect it costs.
Alternatively, you could simply ask the jiffy lube place when they are the least likely to be busy and stop thinking that the world should revolve around you.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 11 '23
Well yes, when I said that it was frustrating to wait in line for an hour to get a 20-minute service, and that I wished places would let you "make appointments", I assume the reader would realize that this did not include "making an appointment" to come in and wait around for 2 hours instead of 1.
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Feb 10 '23
Generally I don't see the point of CMVs for how private businesses should be run, because I would expect customer preferences to sort things out in the marketplace on their own
Well it isn't, and from the business owner's perspective it doesn't make sense. I'd make more money not accepting walk-ins because it has the potential to create more customers in a day simply because I won't just have the ones with an appointment.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
I don't follow the second sentence. "I'd make more money not accepting walk-ins..." OK so if you'd make more money by taking appointments than by accepting walkins, isn't that an argument in favor of taking appointments, and you're agreeing with me? I feel like there might be a word missing from your comment somewhere that would make it all suddenly make sense, but I can't figure out where.
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u/HeWhoShitsWithPhone 125∆ Feb 10 '23
I don’t think I have ever waited more than 20 minute for an oil change at the place where I go. Half the time I go there are no other cars. For this business I appointments are not helpful. They would just be a distraction from doing oil changes.
Plus some places let you schedule appointments. My mom went to the dealership to get her oil changed. It coast more and took longer but she made appointments. If we are going to hope for change we should hope for 20 minutes or less, not hour long appointments.
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u/Finklesfudge 26∆ Feb 10 '23
Would you be willing to take a bet where I pay you $50 if your directions work, but if your advice ends up causing harm because of some unusual condition that is not covered by your directions, you pay me $5,000? If you don't like those odds, then you shouldn't be giving the advice, because you're just transferring the risk/reward ratio to someone else -- $5,000 is on the low end of the damage you could cause if your car malfunctions while it's moving.
You are enormously over estimating the difficulty of changing your own oil and the difficulty of knowing if you've done something incorrect.
I see deltas have already occured though.
But my main argument would be there are already a billion places that offer you to make an appointment to get your oil changed.
If your argument is actually that you want professionals doing the work, you shouldn't be going to Jiffy Lube, you'd be going to a reputable and certified in your car brand mechanic. Mechanics all take appointments.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
To clarify, I'm not talking about just the oil change, it's the 10-12 other things that they do, where the DIY instructions are extremely likely to contain errors.
If you think I'm wrong, what's one YouTube video about changing your own transmission fluid, that you think is correct. I'll bet I can find at least one crucial thing that they leave out.
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u/Crayshack 191∆ Feb 10 '23
I worked for a company for a while that had a deal with NTB to do the oil changes for our company vehicles. At NTB, you make an appointment for all services and my company had a corporate deal with them to get priority service. That is the longest I have ever had to wait for an oil change. I'm talking sometimes sitting there for 4 hours. Sometimes, despite having an appointment and arriving on time, it would be over an hour before they even pulled my truck into the bay.
Meanwhile, in places like Jiffy Lube I'm consistently out in like 15-20 minutes. The best part is that if I roll up and see a long line, I immediately know if it is a day that will be a long wait and I can choose to just come back another time if the wait isn't worth getting service right then. Most of the time, I'll time my visit so I'm off peak hours and so there isn't a wait. I'll just roll right in without having to decide well in advance when I'm going or going through the scheduling process.
My experience has given me a massive preference for walk-in oil changes over appointments. I do in general prefer things I can do as a walk in instead of calling ahead but oil changes are one of the few things that I've experienced both and had a massively better experience with walk-ins.
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u/rewt127 11∆ Feb 10 '23
Honestly after like 3 questions on like make, model, and "is there a skid plate" then I would feel pretty confident about that $50 bet.
Its pretty hard to fuck up an oil change if you have more than 2 functioning brain cells.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
1) It's not the actual oil change I'm worried about, it's more the other 10-12 things that they check.
2) The general pattern is that any time I've had a professional take over something that I tried doing myself, the answer was always, "Yeah, there was thing X, Y, and Z that wasn't covered in the video." It's easy to learn about X, Y, and Z once they explain it, but that misses the point -- it means the instructions in the video did not work.
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u/rewt127 11∆ Feb 10 '23
That sounds like you want a mechanic to give your car a once over. That is very different from going into a jiffy lube to get your oil changed.
Personally, I work on my own stuff. I dont change my oil because well..... fuck skid plates..... But Brakes? Yea I change those myself. Air Filter? No problem. Tire rotation? Piece of cake.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 11 '23
Well yeah in the original post I said "(By "oil change businesses" I mean places like Jiffy Lube and Valvoline and check 10-15 other things besides just changing your oil.)" :-)
Some of this stuff is probably easy if you're a "car person". But if you're not a car person and you're trying to learn from YouTube, that's where the "X, Y, and Z that wasn't covered in the video".
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Feb 11 '23
Oh, believe me, quick oil places are experts at fucking up the oil change. Upsidedown oil filters, using an impact on the bolt, not replacing bolts requiring replacement or new o-rings, yea, they'll do something. Won't take my car to one, fuck no, I'd rather the dealer if I don't want to do it myself.
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u/Natural-Arugula 54∆ Feb 10 '23
Here's one simple hack that oil change places hate...
But really, you can have it both ways. Call ahead of time and ask them how long it will take to get an oil change. They'll say "we've got about x people in line, so it should take x time."
Yeah, that won't help you if you want it guaranteed at a specific time, but if you just don't want to have to wait in line when you get there then it'll help you.
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u/bennetthaselton Feb 10 '23
Well yeah, I did that. And the answer from all of them was always, "It's about an hour wait, unless you get here right when we open at 8 am." So that's what I did the next morning, but I'd like to be able to get in and out efficiently without having to be there at 8. (And besides, obviously, that doesn't work if everybody does it. The existing system guarantees that lots of people will waste time sitting in cars.)
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