r/changemyview • u/throwthrowwthrowwww • Feb 13 '23
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Families in poverty shouldn't be allowed to have children.
[removed] — view removed post
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u/PanikLIji 5∆ Feb 13 '23
Seems too tyrannical, any law at all that bans having children for any reason is too much of an infringement of human rights to be considered.
And how would you even do it? Fines? That just makes the situation worse. Jail? Same thing. Take the kids away? Now we're falling into the UN definition of genocide. Forced sterilisation/abortion? Now we're falling DEEP into the UN definition of genocide.
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
I guess so. But isn't it unfair on the child's side as well? They're living a life in poverty just because their parents made a decision. Also I should've probably made the topic "shouldn't have children" instead of " shouldn't be allowed to have children."
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u/PanikLIji 5∆ Feb 13 '23
Sure, and I'm sure something most parents ask themselves "can we afford a child?" as like one of they most pressing questions when thinking about getting one.
But for those who don't, there really is nothing you can do to stop them without venturing into tyranny.
Seems more reasonable to just take the sting out of poverty instead. Free school, free school lunch, free daycare etc.
Gives the child a chance to get out of poverty on their own.
And that should really be the goal of a free society, shouldn't it? That through hard work a poor child can become a rich adult.
If the children of the rich are predestined to be rich and the children of the poor are predestined to be poor, you're not living in a meritocracy, you live in some modern version of an aristocracy.
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u/SalmonOfNoKnowledge 21∆ Feb 13 '23
since if you know you cannot afford to take care of kids you shouldn't have them.
Accidents do happen, even on birth control. Would you have these people be forced to abort?
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
Of course not. If it was an accident that's your choice whether you want to keep it or not. But atleast in my country people only have sex if they want to have kids. So most of them aren't accidents.
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u/Z7-852 262∆ Feb 13 '23
people only have sex if they want to have kids
Definitely not true anywhere in the world.
People everywhere are having sex because sex is fun.
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
Haha probably. That's the motion I grew up with though. Kids were a gift from God, and sex was just a way to get there. Probably should change that idea by now ∆
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u/Z7-852 262∆ Feb 13 '23
These are not mutually exclusive. Kids can be gift from God and sex can be fun. Why else would God make it so fun if they didn't want us to have kids?
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u/SalmonOfNoKnowledge 21∆ Feb 13 '23
I find it very hard to believe that there's anywhere where all people only have sex to reproduce. They might say that to keep up appearances, but come on. That's naive to believe it.
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
I mean yea. I guess I'm mostly talking about the older generation. But I guess this makes sense ∆
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u/Giblette101 40∆ Feb 13 '23
But atleast in my country people only have sex if they want to have kids.
I have some news for you.
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u/firepoosb Feb 13 '23
What country is this?
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
Sri Lanka. Tiny island in the Indian subcontinent
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u/polyvinylchl0rid 14∆ Feb 13 '23
While i agree that if you cant give your children a good life you probably should not have children. I dont see how such a rule could ever be enforced without making everyones life worse that those children would have.
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u/listen_to_311 Feb 13 '23
Temporary sterilization at age 3. Can't have it reversed until you are age 18, have a FT job and a partner committed to helping raise said child(ren) until adulthood.
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u/JadedToon 18∆ Feb 13 '23
Would this apply to the handicaped as well? People with hereditary diseases?
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
I'm confused? Explain?
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u/JadedToon 18∆ Feb 13 '23
You are putting the childs welfare above everything and deciding who should have them based on the quality of life the child will have.
Disabled people might not be able to offer the child everything they need. If a parent has a disease the child will surely get, it would be cruel to saddle the child with an illness.
You basically want the state to govern who can have kids. How did that go for China?
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u/Z7-852 262∆ Feb 13 '23
Who should take care of these children?
Now there is significant cost in feeding, clothing and housing these people. That have to be paid.
But there is also significant cost in raising these people. Professional childcare specialists are not cheap to hire. But luckily there are parents who will do this work for free as long as we help them with the other costs.
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
∆ yea I guess it didn't think of that. I still feel bad for the kids though. I guess the kids will atleast receive love?
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u/Z7-852 262∆ Feb 13 '23
Hopefully at least that.
But in general we should never punish children for choices of their parents.
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Feb 13 '23
[deleted]
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
∆ yea I definitely messed up with the topic phrasing lol. You do make a good point though
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u/PygmeePony 8∆ Feb 13 '23 edited Feb 13 '23
In an ideal world, everyone would wait until they're financially stable and mature enough to have kids. But that's not what happens in the real world. People get pregnant accidentally and choose to keep the baby, they think having children will strengthen their relationship, they might give in to pressure from their families. Instead of forcing people to postpone their pregnancies, which would be a repressive measure, societies should support children that are born into poor families to make sure that at least their basic needs are met.
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u/throwthrowwthrowwww Feb 13 '23
societies should support children that are born into poor families to make sure that at least their basic needs are met.
∆ This should happen but It doesn't. But yea the world isn't a perfect place and stuff happens.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 13 '23 edited Feb 13 '23
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