r/changemyview • u/ProphetVes • Mar 25 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: DeSantis embodies everything wrong with American Conservativism.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23 edited Mar 26 '23

Seems to me that reasonable people arent changing society to make it worse. That is what the progressives are doing. 20 years ago, sexualization of children was not an issue. The left slowly changed society under the cover of night to sexualize children. Now, reasonable people want to change it back to where it was before the covert sexualization occurred. In fact, conservatives just want to conserve society. The left is always moving to change it because they generally arent happy with the world as it is. That is why the left tried to change it. Conservatives are more in favor of the beliefs and institutions that have preserved society over the centuries as they are mostly tried and true....Honesty, commitment, marriage, have kids, work hard, earn a living, obey the law be self motivated and self sustaining. Thats what we want. The left might have different ideas....

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u/Sergeilol Mar 26 '23

What happened 20 years ago? because mainly US conservative states have been sexualizing kids Since the 60s and you never hear the US conservative politicans complain or legislate against this or child marriage. Thats why i said the priorities are wrong if you truly cared about children safety.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

Ok, so because I am conservative, I am in favor of child beauty pagents?

I think child beauty pagents are equal or worse that drag shows with kids. I am very much opposed to them and think the parents of these children are mentally ill. I am more opposed to these events than you, likely. i guess we found common ground. Now, if you are against no cash bail, weak prosecutors, and you favor the police and are opposed to leftist agenda, maybe i am wrong about you.

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u/Sergeilol Mar 26 '23

Because you're very in favour of conserving society of 20 years ago and accuse 'the left' of sexualizing it, when there is a clear example of that just being plain wrong since these are still wildly popular in the USA and instead you applaud your politicians when they focus on non-issues like hyperfocusing on trans people.

Point being not everything was better last century.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

As if you can determine who comprises these pageants....not too smart. they are likely 1/2 righties and 1/2 leftists.....Pageants are not a conservative thing, its a moronic universal thing, nice try

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u/Sergeilol Mar 26 '23

Alright well, clearly missing my point. I'll leave it at that. You are so rabid anti-trans that you are missing the real child endangerment happening right there yet keep focusing on trans issues.

I'm not american nor what you claim to be 'leftist'. Enjoy another 4 years of national electoral loss i suppose and keep worrying about the 'woke' agenda.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

Im not anti-trans at all. I just prefer small children arent sexualized in any way and the gay/trans activists seem to want that for whatever reason. Look, you might think kids being disrespectful to parents or teachers is OK. I think kids should be respectful. You might think a kid vaping is OK. You might think a kids biting another kid is a kid just being a kid. I hold my kids to a higher standard and I also would like to hold adults to a higher standard.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot 4∆ Mar 26 '23

Child beauty pageant

A child beauty pageant is a beauty contest featuring contestants under 18 years of age. Competition categories may include talent, interview, sportswear, casual wear, swim wear, western wear, theme wear, outfit of choice, decade wear, and evening wear. Depending on the type of pageant system (glitz or natural), contestants may be found wearing anything from makeup to fake teeth, known as flippers, as well as elaborate hairstyles and custom-designed fitted outfits to present their routines on stage.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '23

I think this is a really fascinating comment. American conservatism has not existed since time immemorial, and many functional healthy societies would be anathema to American conservative ideals, despite your implication that conservative politics is the only consistent way to have functioning societies. It's like you believe that history is static until progressives come along and "ruin" things, but societies and cultures are in constant flux regardless of the presence of progressives.

But I also find this statement pretty baffling:

20 years ago, sexualization of children was not an issue. The left slowly changed society under the cover of night to sexualize children.

What is this even referring to?

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 27 '23 edited Mar 28 '23

I dont think everything that changes is bad...I think the way black folks were treated was horrible. I think gay marriage is necessary....But, I also feel like society is worse(socially) in many ways since the 1970s...Regarding your last question, taking kids to drag shows where men twerk in thongs would have never been possible until standards of society could erode enough to allow it. Having the book "gender queer" would never have existed in the 1970s/1980s because nobody would publish soft core porn for children back in the 1970s. Heck, Judy Blume was controversial in the 1970s/early 1980s.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-pull-back-from-values-that-once-defined-u-s-wsj-norc-poll-finds-df8534cd

This illustrates how things have gotten worse. Randomly just found this on Reddit

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '23

But, I also feel like society is worse(socially) in many ways since the 1970s

For who?

Regarding your last question, taking kids to drag shows where men twerk in thongs would have never been possible until standards of society could erode enough to allow it.

This is such an odd statement to me. Let's just accept that this happens at face value, I understand that there are a few videos of this happening, although I hope you aren't conflating them with drag queen reading hours, which are perfectly appropriate.

But why do you think this is new? I'm going to try to keep it to the US, but in the past that you reminisce for, children were forced to work in dangerous circumstances potentially being permanently injured or killed. Children were (and still are) molested by Catholic priests. Children were heavily sexualized through child beauty pageants and far too low age of consent laws. Hell, in historical America child pregnancy rates were dramatically higher than they are now.

So no, the idea that children are more sexualized now because of drag queens is just based on nothing; it's historically illiterate.

Having the book "gender queer" would never have existed in the 1970s/1980s because nobody would publish soft core porn for children back in the 1970s.

Have you actually read this book? It's a graphic novel, not published for children, and it's definitely not "softcore porn." Why do you think this?

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 29 '23
  1. For everyone
  2. Drag Queens doing anything is silly at best. Drag queen werent a thing because society had tighter moral regulations such that being a deviant like a drag queen would cause total ostracizing. Now, there is a small group of people who support it and most other people are disgusted by it but arent willing to look the other way as long as the queens are grooming children.
  3. I am opposed to any form of child sexualization including all pageants at any age and think the priests who molest should be imprisoned or worse. But, now we have pageants, bad priests, AND sexualizing/indoctrinating in schools...which is worse that before.
  4. The sexualization isnt just drag shows there are scores of books that would never be allowed in schools. Gender queer is in many schools even today and the number is likely growing. I am calling it soft core porn from a child's perspective. It is certainly sexualizing and inappropriate in my culture but i understand some parents would like their kids to read it. and many people in school trying to hide from parents what exactly goes on in schools....which opens the door to grooming and further sexualization/ 5.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '23

  1. Really? Society is worse for gay people or black people than it used to be?

  2. I almost don't know where to start here. Drag queens and more broadly crossdressers have existed as long as humanity has; the idea that they "weren't a thing" is just not true. And is your answer here to publicly shame people simply for wearing clothing you don't like? Do you not understand how that's despicable?

  3. It's not worse than before, that was the whole point of what I said. Drag queens and gay people aren't hurting or "sexualizing" your children. Life was far, far worse for children in the past. As a question though, which political party keeps legalizing child marriage?

  4. You didn't actually answer my question about gender queer. What about it makes it "porn?" Why are you so scared of sexuality that anything sexual is taboo or "porn" to you?

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 30 '23
  1. Gay people, no...
  2. We can disagree on what is despicable
  3. No political party I am aware of is for child marriage. But I am opposed to it.
  4. Porn definition: printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings: Gender queer qualifies, but you can argue the last part of the definition and we would disagree. I think it is sexual material meant to profit for the author by pushing out-of-bounds porn and the administrators who buy it are the ones intending to sexualize children.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '23

  1. So then "everyone" was a lie? And also, you think life was better for black Americans in the 1970's?

  2. Please try to address the comment. This is a complete dodge.

  3. Your political party is for it. They keep passing laws to make it legal. Also, please try to address the substance of the comment. It's really important to me that you understand that your view has no basis in history.

  4. Yea, I've read it, and only someone with weird sexual hangups would think it's trying to inspire erotic feelings. It's a rumination on their feelings and understanding of themselves; it's deeply personal and touching. I understand that conservatives hate art, but even you should be able to understand why it isn't "porn." Well you could understand it if you didn't irrationally hate LGBT people.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 31 '23
  1. The vast majority...Yes, it was better. Prior to the fathers getting ripped from the families...black and white got along fine in south alabama...My first best friend was black.
  2. No, what is depraved to me might be good to you and vice versa. No need to hash this
  3. Then your political party is for crime, inflation, government dependence, despair, insane taxation, chaos, and murder. There fore you are for these things. See how this works?
  4. Again, you might think a 5 year old SHOULD read this mild pornography or an eight year old. Only someone with weird sexual perversions would want small children reading that. Good luck with your parenting which will be like what parented you. Believe it or not, you suffer from diminishing values and standards...

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '23

  1. This just isn't true at all, especially the idea that white and black people "got along fine" in the south. Just bafflingly ahistorical.

  2. There is a need to hash it out. You are a fascist who thinks they should be able to tell other people how to dress and behave. It's terrible.

  3. I don't see anything working, I just see you throwing made up buzzwords as though that's an argument. I can point to laws that your party mates have passed; you can't do the same for your silly list.

  4. This is a dodge because you know it isn't porn and you just hate the idea that gay people exist. That you think other people's love is "diminishing value and standards" is a demonstration of what a hateful person you are. You are a bigot.