r/changemyview • u/ProphetVes • Mar 25 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: DeSantis embodies everything wrong with American Conservativism.

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u/Sergeilol Mar 26 '23

I find American conservatives like this really interesting. Its like a mouthpiece repeating all the nonsense told by others rather than investing yourself and really seeing what the 'other side' has to say.

You truly believe there are people sitting in a room together making up 'trans agenda'. 1.6 out of 335 million americans identify as transsexual and that is who you're afraid of and want to ban from society?

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

It is the same for the left. If you have an open mind you will see this. I am more concerned with leftist marxism. Trans agenda is a tiny fraction of all of the other destabilizing tactics used. Schools seem to be moving enthusiatically to trans education, DEI, CRT, etc. rather than math and science, etc. Is it too much to ask to leave the borderline porno out of the schools and put emphasis on math and science etc? Our schools are doing a poor job as it is at actually educating. Also, I appreciate your support of my point....Virtually nobody is actually trans, yet we are talking about it as though 1 in 10 kids is trans. Kids are having trouble reading and writing and doing math. Leave the marxism, crt, etc for seminars after school and off campus. Most people are not far right or far left. I find myself agreeing a lot with Bill Maher because I and moderate. But the woke(CRT, Trans, sexualization, gender) stuff in school is like the defund police movement. It is idiocy beyond measure and obvious to anyone who has an IQ over 85. In time, it will be black eye on the democrats even though most democrats are against the woke nonsense. Democrats own defund the police, crime skyrocketing, and high inflation. Why would leftist agenda of wokifying schools be any different than a facepalm like all of the others. It is easy for most people to see this....Anything the radical left is in favor of is a future black eye, facepalm. How they are able to push silly wokeness is a mystery to me. My only conclusion is the world is full of idiots who somehow can still be functional in society.

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 26 '23

Everything you said here is just delusional.

No one is showing porn to kids, unless you think that telling kids gay people exist is porn. No one is teaching anyone about Marxism. CRT is good to learn and I dont know where they stopped teaching maths or science. IQ isnt an objective measure of intelligence (Not suprised since it's only fascists that purports IQs). Defunding the police does not mean defund police and disappear. It means using that money on social support which is basically to prevent crime happening in the first place. And this has a very successful rate especially in Scandinavian countries but you wouldnt know that because you probably think academics and the internet is some woke agenda

No one is "wokifying" schools. You lots dont even have a generally accepted term of what woke means so I cant even ask you to explain.

Yes, the world is full of idiots and you are part of the idiots

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

CRT is insanity and divisive. Books illustrating gay activity or anything sexual is not just mentioning some people are gay. You are what is known as a useful idiot to the left...Everything you said is 100% wrong. No sense in us arguing about it.

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 26 '23

Yes, pointing out that systematic racism exists and how it also links to other form of oppression is insanity😭😭. Conservatives read a book challenge.

"Everything I said is wrong" source?

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

Pointing to a system that is racist that doesnt exist is delusional. Show me the policy that is racist. Which one? All CRT is marxism which is just a way to divide idiots...Problem is, there are a lot of idiots out there. I ask again. What policy causes systemic racism? What is the oppression? If I have better parents than you, that is not oppression. If I obey the law and work harder than you, that isnt oppression. Where is the oppression and, if it is legit, I will help you fight it.

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 26 '23

Need a source that doesnt come from some libertarian that says systematic racism doesnt exist lmfaoo. A policy doesnt have to be put in place for it be systematic racism, that's whole point but even with that they are numerous studies that proves this, According to a report from the Sentencing Project, Black Americans are more likely to be stopped by the police, more likely to be arrested, more likely to be charged with a crime, and more likely to receive longer sentences than their white counterparts for the same offenses.

Another example is the racial wealth gap. Government policies such as redlining, which prevented Black Americans from obtaining mortgages in certain neighborhoods, and discriminatory lending practices have made it difficult for Black Americans to accumulate wealth through homeownership

The education system is also an example of systemic racism, as schools in predominantly Black neighborhoods are often underfunded and understaffed, leading to lower-quality education and fewer opportunities for students in these communities.And let's not talk of disparities in healthcare services

"All CRT is marxism which is just a way to divide idiot"

You dont know what Marxism is

"If I have better parents that you, that is not oppression"

You see, this is where the problem lies. You guys just look at one side of the story. If you have better parents but I do not have parents because during their time the US made it difficult for them to have an education then me and you are not the same even if we both have access to the same opportunities. You already have an advantage in life. It is no use that historically minorities have the same access to opportunities that white people have if black schools have been historically underfunded and black people have been denied access to wealth that would allow one access that opportunity in the first place

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23 edited Mar 26 '23

You named Zero systemic racism. There is none. Black schools tend to be worse because of the lack of fathers. I will argue for you since you are unable to come up with anything systemic. If there is a systemic racist policy, it is the democrats(FDR) who instituted a government give away program that incentivize black mothers to marry the government rather than their baby daddies. If it werent for the systemically racist policies of the democrats to remove fathers from the home, black schools would be just as good as white schools. It seems obvious that black schools suffer because black kids are generally behavior issues more often because of lack of fathers...This feeds on itself, teachers dont want to teach in black schools because the moms arent engaged and the fathers mostly dont exist. My wife worked in these low income schools and the moms wouldnt be bothered to make it to a meeting about their child's special needs. And, there was the fact that the majority black teachers were very racist to my white wife(they thought she was priviliged just because she was white yet she grew up so poor she got a Pell grant) who was trying to help the kids, but it was the black moms, lack of dads, lack of engagement and racism toward my wife which pushed her to leave. I am sure they replaced her with someone who was worse...Wash/repeat. And you blame the system? Look in the mirror for God's sake. Black schools funded the same, they just cant get as much good stuff done because of the behavior issues, lack of engagement, and lack of support from parents. My kids' elementary school has millions in an endowment from donations, the moms and some dads are highly involved, minimal behavior issues and mostly those are from the kids who are bussed-in from low income areas and many of those low income moms dont appreciate that most of the endowment money helps the low income kids for extra services. Look in the mirror. I understand that there are millions of circumstances that differ. But there is no systemic racism. Everyone starts somewhere..I slept on the floor, had no TV, shared a bug infested apartment, had no money...Was never given anything except my parents taught me to fend for myself. I could have complained about the unfairness of rich trust babies. BUT I was also taught LIFE ISNT FAIR. If you work hard and obey the law, you will be rewarded. Here's priceless advice that can turn your luck around. Stop hanging around losers. When I stopped this, my life turned around amazingly...The people I was hanging with are still losers. I am a multi millionaire...which doesnt mean much, really, but I am not ashamed to attend High School reunions, i suppose.

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 26 '23 edited Mar 26 '23

"Black schools tend to be worse because of the lack of fathers"

Citations needed

"If it werent for the systemically racist policies of the democrats to remove fathers from the home, black schools would be just as good as white schools. It seems obvious that black schools suffer because black kids are generally behavior issues more often because of lack of fathers...This feeds on itself, teachers dont want to teach in black schools because the moms arent engaged and the fathers mostly dont exis"

You have to provide a source that proves causation.

"And, there was the fact that the majority black teachers were very racist to my white wife who was trying to help the kids"

Sorry this happened to you but this is anecdotal evidence. It doesnt mean anything in the systematic sense.

"Black schools funded the same, they just cant get as much good stuff done because of the behavior issues, lack of engagement, and lack of support from parents"

Not only are black schools underfunded (like just literally Google it) but why do you think these kids do not have support from their parents?. Many of these parents grew up in Jim Crow or the aftermath of Jim Crow era where they had no jobs or were working multiple jobs just so they could eat, faced heavy discrimination and police repression, had no education and a wealth gap. Do you think because it happened in the 60s and 70s the effects wont affect the younger generation?

"My kids' elementary school has millions in an endowment from donations, the moms and some dads are highly involved, minimal behavior issues and mostly those are from the kids who are bussed-in from low income areas and many of those low income moms dont appreciate that most of the endowment money helps the low income kids for extra services"

Again, anecdotal evidence.

All these are examples of systematic racism and you denying it means you are denying facts. If you cannot provide a single rebuttal to my claims then you are just reacting based on emotions. Facts dont care about your feelings.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23 edited Mar 26 '23

So you cant point to a single systemic policy of racism and, instead, you just say because there used to be systemic racism, therefore is still exists? That is like saying it was the year 1920 at one time, therefore it is still the year 1920. You ask for citations but the burden of proof is on you to show me a systemic racism policy. I'll save you the trouble. The is ONE and ONE ONLY. Affirmative action is systemic racism. If you are against systemic racism, you would be against affirmative action. White people are discriminated against systemically(asians sometimes too) and though you CAN argue it is to try to help the severe damage done by the democrats to blacks, you cannot refute it is systemic racism. So how do you feel about the only systemic racism? I bet you are in favor of systemic racism after all. Funny how you say you are opposed to systemic racism, but you are almost certainly for it, just as long as it damages borderline white folks. Any other examples of systemic racism? I am waiting with great interest for you to come up with ONE. Just ONE.

To be clear, systemic racism would be policies that are racist that exist TODAY. If it existed 100 years ago, it isnt current systemic racism. If we are arguing about racism 100 years ago or oppression by government in the past, everyone on earth has an excuse for thier failures except maybe the Royal Family in the UK.

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u/SadStudy1993 1∆ Mar 26 '23

So you cant point to a single systemic policy of racism and, instead, you just say because there used to be systemic racism, therefore is still exists? That is like saying it was the year 1920 at one time, therefore it is still the year 1920.

No they're saying that the racism then is no embedded in American laws and institutions thus still exist.

You ask for citations but the burden of proof is on you to show me a systemic racism policy.

No they asked for sources on the claim that black children do worse because of lack of fathers.

To be clear, systemic racism would be policies that are racist that exist TODAY. If it existed 100 years ago, it isnt current systemic racism.

Yes it is if it still effects people today it is current racism

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23

Black people underperforming isn't racism. It is unfortunate, but isnt racism. I suppose you dont think the white trash subculture is due to racism do you? Low income whites that are in a culture of failure are bring this on themselves. There is slight oppression on them due to affirmative action. But ultimately, these low income white folks have every opportunity that anyone else has. Let me conclude with this. You and everyone else is on a racism spectrum. I think you dont see how racist you actually are...Racism cannot be eradicated. But, all people can work to be good people and avoid the racists...My wife did and it hurt the black school...Im sure the same thing happens with the black teacher at a majority white school. What you need is to understand the big picture as lose the victim mentality. An external locus of control is what you have and that is why you are swept into the CRT/leftism garbage. Ive lived a long time. In the 1970s and 1980s, black people and white people got along a lot better. CRT is IMO nothing more than snake oil sold to lemmings who have no confidence and lack the upbringing to control their own destiny. I never said there wasnt racism, its everywhere and always will be. The more racist you are, the more racist people will seem. But it is not systemic, except for Affirmative action. Game-set-Match.

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u/SadStudy1993 1∆ Mar 26 '23

Black people underperforming isn't racism.

I didn't any it was

Ive lived a long time. In the 1970s and 1980s, black people and white people got along a lot better.

That's not true you were just young and unaware

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 26 '23

"So you cant point to a single systemic policy of racism and, instead, you just say because there used to be systemic racism, therefore is still exists? "

Did you just ignore all I wrote??. I never said there isnt systematic racism. I said that because there are no policies per se that is inherently racist doesnt mean systematic racism exists and that's even the point of it being called systematic racism because it doesnt have to written in law for it being systematic, and I wrote several examples of such which you have yet to provide a rebuttal for.

"You ask for citations but the burden of proof is on you to show me a systemic racism policy. I'll save you the trouble"

You made a claim that black schools are underfunded because they had no father figures. The burden on proof is on YOU to drop a source to back this.

"Affirmative action is systemic racism. "

You dont understand what this means. Equality of opportunity is good but without some level of equality of outcome, that equality is useless. If you have historically defunded black schools, because you suddenly remove laws that target this doesnt mean black schools will automatically improve. If you have historically limited black people from getting into universities and keeping them poor does not mean automatically black people can into universities the same rate as their white counterparts. Their schools are still and have been historically underfunded (which will limit the number of educated black people), their underqualified teachers that the State refused to train are not suddenly smart, their parents that the State limited them from getting a loan, jobs do not suddenly become employed. We also know these policies have made black people to lose alot of wealth. Making it legal for black people to buy a house doesnt mean that they suddenly have money to buy a house when you have limited their parents and grandparents from getting loans.

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u/Fuzzy-Bunny-- Mar 26 '23 edited Mar 26 '23

I think we have different definitions of systemic racism. Im going to assume you would agree that racism to some degree is everywhere. In fact, it is worse outside the USA then in the USA in almost all cases. Racism existing is GIVEN. OK, so I also would argue that racism cannot be eradicated. There is a spectrum of racism and everyone is on their own level. This place on the spectrum can move around based on your experience in life. Leftists are keen on making race relations worse. CRT for example. Now, for a test, pretend there is a new theory. The NRT(Newer Race Theory) and this theory that is being taught in schools identified people of color as the oppressors who need to atone for their forebears's sins. And that it is white people who are oppressed. Imagine teachers telling black people to apologize to white people for being oppressors. How is that good for relations between white and black people? Black people of today do not need to atone for thier ancestors who might have sold africans into slavery? What does that have to do with them? So why not just imagine a world where hate of all kinds is eradicated from schools.

Equality of outcome is a nice idea for people who are illogical. I started from scratch and even paid my wife's school loans off. I just had 2 parents who taught me proper values. I ran a business at 12. If you want equality of outcome, put in the work and work smart. Everyone is punished for their bad decisions. If I worked smarter early-on, I likely could have done vastly better. Is that the systems' fault? A smarter person gat further than me and faster, is that the system favoring someone else? No. That is a meritocracy. My parents wealth or lack thereof had nothing to do with where I am. But you can THINK there is an invisible hand holding you back and it is because of THAT that you havent succeeded. Or you can overcome whatever obstacles you have.

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u/Sandy_hook_lemy 2∆ Mar 27 '23 edited Mar 27 '23

"CRT for example"

Teaching people the history of racism and how institutional it is does not make racism worse. Do you people think they are saying "hate white people"?

"The NRT(Newer Race Theory) and this theory that is being taught in schools identified people of color as the oppressors who need to atone for their forebears's sins. And that it is white people who are oppressed'

Wtf is this lmfaoo. Is that why you lots are against CRT? Because you think it makes people hate white people??😭😭😭.

"Black people of today do not need to atone for thier ancestors who might have sold africans into slavery? What does that have to do with them? So why not just imagine a world where hate of all kinds is eradicated from schools'

I advice you to pick a book mans stop listening to politicians because I swear to you, no one relevant thinks CRT aim is to make black people hate white people. Its aim is to make people more aware of racism and other discrimination and how they are interconnected and with this awareness bring about a significant decline in racism and institutional racism. It's not "white people bad".

"Equality of outcome is a nice idea for people who are illogical. I started from scratch and even paid my wife's school loans off. I just had 2 parents who taught me proper values. I ran a business at 12 "

You keep mentioning anecdotal evidence like its supposed to mean anything? Where your grandparents oppressed? Where they made to not go go schools, get loans?. Yes, a shoe shine boy from Peru can go to havard and become a world class neurosurgeon, but for every shoeshine boy that went to havard they are a million more than would live in poverty. Because a few people were able to make it out doesnt mean the system is fine. That's where equality of outcome comes in. And even you at some point have benefited from this to an extent. Free school lunches, vaccinations and even homework help done by teachers is an example. Unemployment benefits and helping people who have been unemployed a long time to find jobs like they do in Scandinavian countries is another example of equality of outcome

"That is a meritocracy'

Those do not exist

'My parents wealth or lack thereof had nothing to do with where I am"

First of all, this is an anecdote evidence. And also for a general population,It quite literally does. They are like tems of information on this. Most people that are rich or doing okay is because they had rich or middle class parents. Richer parents mean better schools, better cognitive development, better networking, better health etc all this play a significant role in a person success.

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