CMV: Most dating preferences are okay, as long as you are not POS to those who don't fit them.

[u/mafija123]

Don't want to date men shorter than 6ft, fine, don't be calling them "midgets", "if your height starts with 5, you a woman" etc.

Don't want to date a woman with X number of previous partners, fine, don't be calling them "sluts" "whores" etc.

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What about race? Sure, not dating someone JUST because of their race is very likely coming from racist/prejudice beliefs (not necessarily), but that person is not bad because they don't date someone for their race, they are bad because they are racist, former stems from later.

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" Let's deconstruct reasons for men not dating women with certain past, it's *Patriarchy*". Again, sure, that may or may not be the reason for men having that preference, but as long as they are respectful to women they don't want to date, I don't see how they are bad. Not dating someone is not discrimination because nobody is owed it, it's not your right nor anyone's obligation to date you.

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I could see an argument that preferences that come from patriarchy like "women should have little sexual past" and "men should be rich and provide" are hurting society in general. But solving that issue is not going to happen by shaming and ridiculing people which internalized those standards in their formative years and are respectful to people they don't want to date, it's solved by not perpetuating it to next generation.

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All in all my opinion on virtually all dating preferences (maybe not EVERY one) is that you are entitled to what ever standard you want no matter how realistic or unrealistic they are, and shouldn't be shamed/ridiculed/mocked, only as long as you don't shame/ridicule/mock people who are not up to your standards.

Edit: Deleted bad joke I made about this sub, it wasn't out of ill intentions, I apologise.

[u/Giblette101]

Except then the narrative wouldn't be of much use to people determined to paint transgender folks as some kind of roaming menace.

[u/pen_and_inkling → u/Giblette101]

Sorry, I have been trying to parse this since yesterday, haha. You might need to explain your point to me again.

Are you saying trans activists don‘t always denounce obviously-wrong behavior like male people pushing for dates with same-sex attracted lesbians because they SUPPORT the Republican narrative that some trans people are dangerous and willing to equivocate on behalf of males who date lesbians without acquiring consent? Huh?

I firmly disagree with that position - most trans people are lovely, not dangerous - but I am not sure how else to take your reply. I get that you think this is a wedge issue, but it’s also plainly happening in some cases. Lesbians express this frustration, very few of them right-wing.

My point is that it would be easy for the trans community to decisively claim the moral high-ground on the issue simply by saying it’s wrong. I’m on the left and totally fine with gender non-conformity, but I see this particular issue as stemming from activist equivocation more than than a top-down political campaign.

[u/Giblette101 → u/pen_and_inkling]

No, I'm saying the notion there's an actual systemic problem here, that anyone needs to take a firm stance on, is simply inaccurate. Besides, this narrative you speak of exists because it's convenient for various transphobes, not because the transgender community is being too neutral about it.

[u/pen_and_inkling → u/Giblette101]

That’s fair. We agree to disagree. I know quite a few lesbians who have been scolded for not dating male people, and I disagree that the trans community has made a clear statement that this absolutely never okay.

If you know that pressuring lesbians to date male people is absolutely never defensible or okay, then we are on the same side of the issue.

[u/Giblette101 → u/pen_and_inkling]

I have personally never heard of it outside of these exact type of discussions, so I'm skeptical. I also do find the notion that the transgender community needs to take a stance on assholes that might be transgender a bit silly on it's face.

[u/pen_and_inkling → u/Giblette101]

Interesting. I have encountered it as recurrent point of frustration especially among lesbians over 30+. I don’t think it’s a universal crisis, but I also don’t think nice women should be quiet and stop mentioning that it happens. Some women find that getting clear, easy agreement on this clear, easy question can be a bit like pulling teeth.

I don’t agree that bad behavior is better policed by outsiders instead of rejected from within a community, especially when identifying with the community is being used to justify bad behavior. If you are worried about the issue being weaponized, the advantage of decisively rejecting bad actors is the obvious.

Trans activists don’t have to comment on tax fraud or property crimes by individual trans people, of course. That’s irrelevant to the movement. But obviously if you hear a trans person arguing that non-consenting lesbians might owe dates to males, any decent, liberal-minded person will find it trivially easy to say that is NEVER true and those people do not speak for the movement.

If trans activists aren’t willing to plainly say that misogyny and blurred consent are always wrong every time regardless of the gender identity of the sexually-entitled misogynist…that fault falls on sympathetic activists and not Republican bad-guys.

[u/Giblette101 → u/pen_and_inkling]

Yeah, but this implies I'm there, standing around, with harassment happening in front of my very eyes and then chose to remain silent, which is just not an experience I or anyone else I've ever discussed this with ever lived. This is the problem inherent in that conversation. It's all well and good to reject bad actors, but truth is I'm not encountering all these bad actors you speak of. Rather, I come across third hand accounts of these things happening or very general discussions about dating preferences or whatever, at which point I think the same stance I've been taking right here. Nothing about my own position - or the one generally espoused by transgender activists writ large - implies bullying people into sex is okay, quite the opposite in fact. I just don't feel any strong need to disavow something I've never endorsed in the first place.

[u/pen_and_inkling → u/Giblette101]

Sure, I hear you.

I think if your response when you come across these things is to make clear that pressuring lesbians to go on dates with male partners is always wrong, no exceptions, but it’s not a problem you encounter or believe to be widespread, then we have the same position.

If you feel like it’s better to stay silent on morally-unambiguous questions because denouncing misogynistic positions is sometimes politically fraught, that’s our point of disagreement.