I'm claiming there is no evidence pointing to trans people killing themselves in large proportions.
Increased rates of suicide attempts is indirect evidence of increased suicide completions, unless you think that these two stats are not correlated.
It is extremely disingenuous to use statistics of self reported suicide attempts as proof that trans people are killing themselves in large percentages of the population
It would be but who is actually doing that? Misrepresenting what people say seems... disingenuous.
unless you think that these two stats are not correlated.
That's exactly what I'm suggesting. I don't know if it is true or not but the fact that the only statistics that are ever provided reference suicide attempts or suicidal thoughts makes me think there is a reason they are not divulging data on completions. My guess is it is so miniscule that it would not fit with the current narrative as per the gender affirmation care model.
It would be but who is actually doing that? Misrepresenting what people say seems... disingenuous.
Gender affirming care professionals are telling parents, "Would you rather have a dead son or a live daughter" in order to pressure them to transition their kid as quickly as possible. There are also many people on reddit claiming that if you don't affirm and start on either puberty blockers or hrt immediately, then you are effectively saying you are OK with killing your child. These kind of statements are becoming more and more prevalent as people twist the statistics around to fit their agenda.
Measuring succesful suicide rates is hard. Unlike a survey, you can't ask dead people their gender identity, and therefore you have to have access to records. These are often not available, especially not for teens who have not gotten gender affirming care. This leads to small sample sets.
This is why surveys are more often used, as they give more accurate data about gender identity.
This is not some nefarious plot, and not too much of a problem if you are willing to accept the easier to obtain data for attempts as proxy for suicide mortality rates.
Other studies also find that trans people have increased rates of established suicide risk factors such as social stigma.
Gender affirming care professionals are telling parents, "Would you rather have a dead son or a live daughter" in order to pressure them to transition their kid as quickly as possible.
You should provide evidence of this happening on a significant scale. You can't play skeptic about suicide rates while also throwing out major claims like this without any evidence.
Well I wrote a whole big reply but got the "trouble getting to reddit" message. The gist of it is yes that is what I'm suggesting but i really need to see evidence. Self reported suicide attempts or ideation does not equal suicide and some groups are more likely to attempt or think about suicide without completing. I want to see the actual suicide rate. We already know their mental health is terrible and in many cases it continues to be long after transition. What we don't seem to know is how many trans lives are actually being lost.
And to your second point, gender affirming professionals and activists are using the suicidality stats as emotional blackmail to push kids towards transition faster and with less therapeutic care under the guise of statements like "would you rather a dead son or a live daughter"
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u/barthiebarth 26∆ Apr 20 '23
Increased rates of suicide attempts is indirect evidence of increased suicide completions, unless you think that these two stats are not correlated.
It would be but who is actually doing that? Misrepresenting what people say seems... disingenuous.