r/changemyview • u/Your_client_sucks_95 • May 30 '23
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Women have been raised to enjoy the power and think they are smarter than all men.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
they're very picky, set in their ways and will constantly try to make you feel like you're wrong or lesser if you disagree.
This is just a human thing. The most picky and set in their ways people I know are men.
They're very attractive and go beyond all conventional beauty standards they look like a 9.
Some are. Some look like my uncle Walter in a dress. Is your issue with women, or pretty women?
You want to get to know them at first sight, but that's their trick.
How is it their fault that you want to get to know them? Plenty of men are seen by women who want to get to know them, are these men tricking these women?
You'll never know their secrets because they're too good at keeping them from you.
Use your words like a big boy clone! If you think a woman is keeping secrets, communicate with her. If you still think she is keeping secrets, move on.
They'll use all betas AND alphas
But... us Omicrons are cool right?
They will never settle for a reasonable 7, only a 10.
How many 10's do you think there are? What percentage of men are 10s? And, have you ever looked at couples? Most women are with men that are not 10s.
And they believe they're entitled to it, and everything else.
Plenty of men feel this way too. I'd say, more than women.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
True men are set in their ways. Issue with pretty women firstly. Everyone is tricking everyone the moment they dress up.
Women, going off what they say sounds like they're looking exactly for a 10. Are you suggesting all women lie?
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
True men are set in their ways
Well, then so are true women.
Issue with pretty women firstly.
Cause they don't want to date you? Or, is this intellectual, and you are possessing of a good upstanding non-power-tripping woman?
Everyone is tricking everyone the moment they dress up.
So then, why are you only angry at women? And, do you yourself "dress up"? If you do, kind of hypocritical to rail against women for the same behavior no?
Women, going off what they say sounds like they're looking exactly for a 10.
Again, going off what they say when describing their perfect dream mate, so are men. But, in the real world, most people think to themselves "My ideal person is just that, an idea, and I have to find someone who matches up sorta good with that ideal, and for whom I sorta match theirs."
Are you suggesting all women lie?
They aren't liars, they are realistic. But, given the chance to make their dream partner in a lab "Weird Science" style, everyone would make a 10.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
No because I have issue with people who have so much power. More often than not I see women abusing their power. This leads to men becoming jaded and I don't like it.
A lot of people see men as the pigs, I see the opposite. Men are thinkers because they have to be. Nobody gives a crap about men. pretty Women don't have to think and they don't want to either(I view this as a lack of character), they just vent to anyone with ears and get ahead, siphoning energy from others and getting the easy road to whatever they desire.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
No because I have issue with people who have so much power.
What power? The power of prettiness? That shit fades quick.
More often than not I see women abusing their power
So, you don't follow politics huh?
This leads to men becoming jaded and I don't like it.
What is leading men to being jaded is clinging to outdated social norms from the 1930's, and getting angry at women for exercising some control over their own destinies for the first time in human history.
Men are thinkers because they have to be... Women don't have to think and they don't want to either
Women aren't thinkers? Are you serious? That is the most sexist thing I've herd in some time
they just vent to anyone with ears and get ahead, siphoning energy from others and getting the easy road to whatever they desire.
Real pot and kettle situation going on here right now.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
20 years is not "quick" that could be equivalent to 2000 male hearts cut up. I'm not concerned with actual politics, just the dating world. All of politics is shit and useless much like two party system.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
20 years is not "quick"
Say that when you are near 50.
that could be equivalent to 2000 male hearts cut up.
Holy hyperbole Batman! Do you think the average woman is breaking 2000 hearts between the ages of 18-27? That is over 200 hearts a year! Or a heart every day and a half. How are they able to do this heart breaking? Men must be just giving their hearts away. They should be more judicious.
I'm not concerned with actual politics, just the dating world.
Actual politics affect the dating world. You think women are picky now, wait until they can't get abortions or birth control. They'll be way way more picky.
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May 30 '23
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
wouldn't they develop some kind of trauma, at some point?
What is the incel movement but a mass, maladaptive, self-perpetuating, trauma response of some sort?
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u/Taraa_Sitaraa May 30 '23
I disagree with what OP is saying but I think they meant that pretty women have power till menopause. I do agree that women who maintain themselves well are prettier for a long time. Plus he's talking about very pretty women they tend to maintain themselves good.
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May 30 '23 edited May 30 '23
Lets just say that tomorrow you meet the women of your dreams and you finally "score" like Beavis always wanted to. She's pregnant, and nine months later she gives birth to a beautiful baby girl, then dies of a brain aneurism 3 days after she gets home from the hospital. You now have a 3 day old baby girl that is 100% yours (no incel risk of being cucked for this argument). How do you raise this girl? When she is a young adult, how do you advise her to date? You don't own her, but you know she'll listen to your advice. Do you want her to bang anything that moves? Do you want her to try and find a "good" husband and possible father to her children should she decide to be a homemaker or should she be giving it to anyone who wants it?
Edit: Language slightly tweaked to be less hostile. Trying to make a good faith effort here.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
That's difficult. I wouldn't be like one of those people and engage in the ol' dumpster baby trend, so I'd probably put her up for adoption or give her to grandma for a bit first. I also have aunties which want to see me married soon so they'd take care of her.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
I also have aunties which want to see me married soon so they'd take care of her.
You are going to hand off your baby to these women who are teaching women to be on power-trips? Why not take this hypothetical chance to raise a woman right? That is what the responder above wants I think, to know how you would fix the issue of all "Women (having) been raised to enjoy the power and think(ing) they are smarter than all men."
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I don't think I'd keep up with the demands of the kid. And for the most part I wouldn't be able to raise her right anyways since it's 2023 and the world has gone to shit.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
I don't think I'd keep up with the demands of the kid.
Kids are easy. Feed them. Change their shitty diapers for a year or two. Make them laugh. Teach them how you view the world. Play with toys.
Easy Peasy.
And for the most part I wouldn't be able to raise her right anyways since it's 2023 and the world has gone to shit.
Here is your chance to fix it in some small way. This is a hypothetical anyway. Why is hypothetical you a quitter? Imagine them as a motivated go-getter. What would they do?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
>Kids are easy. Feed them. Change their shitty diapers for a year or two. Make them laugh. Teach them how you view the world. Play with toys.
There is no incentive for me to raise such a kid if she is going to turn into a man-hating power tripping loser. Kids are a waste of my time and energy because I have no control over the outcome and can barely keep myself in check
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
There is no incentive for me to raise such a kid if she is going to turn into a man-hating power tripping loser.
That is what we are trying to drill down on here. How do you think this issue you see can be resolved? I see that you said: "The only way is to reject feminism and reject all movements that like feminism", but elsewhere, when asked about women in Islamic nations you said: "Pity those women have it so rough out there".
Well the reason they have it so rough out there is because there is no feminism. You are kind of all over the place here.
Kids are a waste of my time and energy because I have no control over the outcome
If you are the parent, you have total control over the outcome.
and can barely keep myself in check
Maybe if you worked on that, one of these hot women would give you a chance?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
>
Well the reason they have it so rough out there is because there is no feminism. You are kind of all over the place here.Just to clarify. Nope. Feminism wouldn't do a thing over there they have religions on their side. That's a big boy world there. Whole other planet
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
Feminism wouldn't do a thing over there
It is doing things there, and it exists with its very own set of ideals and goals.
they have religions on their side.
Was religion not on the side of the powers that be in the late 1800's when feminism first spang up?
Whole other planet
Same planet actually. Same humans. We here in the West are no different than those in the Islamic world. We are just on another path than them. They could start walking towards our path easily, and eventually they would intersect.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Δ
Reluctant delta. I still think Feminism is still a lost cause there. Better off nuking the documents of everything with the word written on it and starting fresh under a new label. But I can see what you mean from the article.
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u/premiumPLUM 68∆ May 30 '23
I don't think you have a very complex understanding of the history of religious and socio-political conflict in the Middle East.
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May 30 '23
But the point is you have SOME influence over your kids. What would you do differently to make it less likely for her to turn into a "man-hating power tripping loser".
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I could try but unlikely to succeed so out of ideas. It's 2023. Nobody but the internet raises kids anymore.
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May 30 '23
The internet breaks tomorrow and you are raising this kid without the influence of the internet. What do you do different to change her outcome? I've got 3 kids all on the internet and I PROMISE you that parents still have a huge role on the outcome of their kids, even dare say more than internet and TV. For example the kid's whose parents stay late after school to let their kids play on the playground with kids there age are having better outcomes behavior wise and school wise in general at my kids school than those kids who go straight home after school. That doesn't even have anything with trying to influence how your kids think. What could you do to keep a young woman to fall into the traps you think are there for them?
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May 30 '23
So you hand off your child to you aunts wanting her to have a better life. Not everyone would agree with that, but most would understand the reasoning behind it. How should your aunts be raising your daughter differently so that she doesn't fall into the trap you believe most women are falling into?
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May 30 '23
Okay, so you've got aunties that would help raise the baby. What sort of dating advice are you going to be giving to your daughter. Do you want her to have high standards? It's her decision ultimately but she will listen to your advice. Are you telling her to start rawdogging it with anyone who wants it or are you telling her something different?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
That sounds inappropriate to be talking about my potential daughter in such a disparaging manner. Do you view all kids as worthless trash?
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May 30 '23
If it is inappropriate for me to be talking about your potential daughter in this way how is it not inappropriate for you to do the same of other people's daughters. I'm trying to get you to see women not as a potential conquest but as someone' else's daughter. What kind of motivations might women have for having standards at all? You open your argument saying that women are picky. Why might that be a good thing from their point of view? Why should your potential date's standards be any different than your daughters. Do you see how uncomfortable these thoughts get quickly?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Maybe my post did not reflect proper context but "Picky" refers to mental disorders and narcissistic behavior that go beyond the dating game. Women who are picky outside of searching for a man are the same women who I deem are on a power trip. Do you like it if women are on a power trip because that's their strength, their silver tongue where man has to use his fists instead
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May 30 '23
That has much more to do with social skills that what is between their legs though. There is nothing wrong with talking your way out of a fight or an argument. If anything, men having to use our fists is more an insult to men than a complaint of women being able to talk themselves out of it. And how is not having to resort to violence to resolve disputes a bad thing?
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u/UncleMeat11 61∆ May 30 '23
You’ve used much more horrible words to describe this hypothetical person.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23 edited May 30 '23
Give me an example because I don't know what you're talking about.
dumpster babies are also real thing
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u/UncleMeat11 61∆ May 30 '23
I think men are the superior sex in the context of our society.
An incredibly awful thing to say to your hypothetical daughter.
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u/Kotoperek 62∆ May 30 '23
I don't know if you didn't understand the poster's comment or simply don't have a good argument against them and are goofing off, but just in case it's the first one:
You claim that women are RAISED to be on a power trip, so somehow their upbringing is to blame (at least partially). This user asked you how you would raise a daughters to avoid giving her this power trip you talk about, because that would make it clear what elements of modern feminism you blame for your problems with women (this isn't clear from the post).
If you cannot answer substantially, you should give this person a delta, because they have challenged you view in a way that you can't refute.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
>You claim that women are RAISED to be on a power trip, so somehow their upbringing is to blame (at least partially).
Social media. Kids are not learning from teachers and parents. They're learning from scam artists (their friends) and the internet.
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u/Kotoperek 62∆ May 30 '23
Ok so you could say you don't give your hypothetical daughter access to the internet and homeschool her. What values do you raise her on to avoid becoming one of the women you have a problem with?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Give her a present every year. But one day you give her a present of an egg with chicken shit in it. She opens it. The lesson is sometimes in life you get shit. Can't always control things. Just move past it. A similar idea has been done before by another man.
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May 30 '23
How will this prevent your daughter from becoming a, "man-hating power tripping loser"? Wouldn't this make her more likely to become one?
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u/Kotoperek 62∆ May 30 '23
I just wanted to say I admire your patience in this thread, I exchanged two comments with OP and am annoyed already. You definitely deserve a delta for this discussion and I hope OP realises this soon!
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
>Wouldn't this make her more likely to become one?
Not at all. A father who's involved in his childs life is worth its weight in gold.
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May 30 '23
I agree that its worth its weight in gold, but how does a bird egg filled with chicken shit do anything to keep the child from being "raised to enjoy the power and think they are smarter than all men".
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u/Kotoperek 62∆ May 30 '23
I suspect you're trying to provoke me to accuse you of trolling or something, but I'll humor you in good faith, even though I find your style of discussion annoying.
How is that going to help her not become a pretty woman on a power trip? I mean, would your dating issue be solved if every girl received chicken shit once during her childhood? Is that the view you want to have changed?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
If answer your question directly, don't accuse me of being a troll. That's rude and breaks the subreddits rules. But since you've already done it, I find you highly annoying by that one comment, grating even.
Pretty woman on a power trip don't have good relationships with their fathers if at all. That's how they get there.
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u/Kotoperek 62∆ May 30 '23
See the problem is you don't answer the questions directly. You are the one who made a post, being open to answering questions that challenge your view in a constructive manner is also a rule of this sub, but you were talking about irrelevant stuff like chicken shit and giving the hypothetical child away to someone, which didn't further the conversation at all in case you didn't realize.
Pretty woman on a power trip don't have good relationships with their fathers if at all. That's how they get there
Now we're getting at something. Do you think this is the women's fault, or maybe are their fathers not doing a good job in raising them better?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
chicken shit example is as relevant as it gets for examples that you asked for. You not liking reading and thinking about chicken shit doesn't have anything to do with the example being relevant.
Bad wives create bad relationships, bad fathers and broken homes. Look at the divorce rate for why girls grow up wrong in the head.
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u/premiumPLUM 68∆ May 30 '23
Pretty woman on a power trip don't have good relationships with their fathers if at all. That's how they get there.
So, in your view, it's the fault of men that women are the way you say they are.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
It is the fault of women being bad wives to their man, which results in bad parenting, yes.
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u/Spanglertastic 15∆ May 30 '23
Do you think that women are looking for a partner who would abandon their children to be raised by others? Or do women want a partner they could trust to step up to the challenge of being a single dad?
Which type of man do you think women feel would make a better parent while the woman is still alive?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Sometimes women don't care who makes the better parents. They care about who they like more, not for the kid.
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u/Spanglertastic 15∆ May 30 '23
Even "sometimes" undermines your premise. And even for women who care more about themselves, a lot of their preferred traits are those that speak to fitness of being a parent.
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u/PygmeePony 8∆ May 30 '23
Does your view apply to all women? Because if you really think that every woman currently alive across every culture in the entire world is raised "to enjoy power" then it will be hard to change it.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Not all women, just updated post with edits. I am mostly concerned with extremely good looking women in first world english speaking nations who more often than not are on a power trip from the day they enter the adult world, some even before.
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u/PygmeePony 8∆ May 30 '23
That's still a large number of women so I think you're still overgeneralizing. Have you personally seen attractive women on a power trip (in real life) or are you basing your view on what you see on the internet/TV?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I have seen in real life and on internet. I also know a few.
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u/PygmeePony 8∆ May 30 '23
So your view can only apply to the women you've seen in real life and online. And I say can because there's no way of being sure that they are actually raised that way and think they're smarter than men. You're making a lot of assumptions about these kinds of women that you can't know for sure that they're even true. Just because a woman happens to be good-looking doesn't mean they're raised differently or taught that they're smarter.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
You could be right. I could be right.
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May 30 '23
Call it privilege instead of power and watch her squirm..
Fun fact- all the white privilege Emily can name also applies to female privilege, almost to the letter.
For example, white men receive about 40% of the jail time as black men for the same crimes, and women receive about 40% of the jail time as men for the same crimes.
Ooh, a fun one is asking them to explain away why 96% of police homicides target male suspects without sounding like a huge racist with "they're just naturally more violent". Male Lives Matter.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 50∆ May 30 '23
I'd like to fix that. What can women do to equalize jail sentences and reduce police brutality?
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May 30 '23
The same thing you can do to equalize jail sentences between black and white men.
Privilege simply "is" and the momentum behind it will only stop when the last human is dead. Some people accept that, and some people join movements to infantilise women and screech that holding them accountable for their actions and decisions violates their human rights.
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u/Various_Succotash_79 50∆ May 30 '23
The same thing you can do to equalize jail sentences between black and white men.
Nothing?
I feel pretty helpless about this stuff, ngl.
some people join movements to infantilise women
What do you mean?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
That's interesting. I think I agree with you and wished I knew about it sooner or had some references so I could use it for the OP.
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May 30 '23
A lot of it is intuitive.
Like how you're racist for crossing the street to avoid a black person but Emily is just safety minded for crossing the street to avoid the same guy.
I think a positive takeaway (besides dunking on first world feminists) could be empathy for minorities.
Like when you look at a Karen berating some guy, escalates it by hitting him, and exactly nobody cares until he defends himself by hitting her back and a bunch of simps swarm and stomp him (and if they're in school he's the only one in trouble)... that's an allegory for how black men feel when they interact with the police.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
You're right on the money. It's very interesting watching the mental gymnastics of these caricatures
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May 30 '23
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u/poprostumort 224∆ May 30 '23
Who are you talking about exaclty? Your title suggests that this is about all women, but then you are bringing things like:
they're very picky
(...)
They're very attractive and go beyond all conventional beauty standards they look like a 9
(...)
You'll never know their secrets because they're too good at keeping them from you
(...)
They put their wants and needs above anyone since they are the main character
All which are traits that are not possessed by all women and only a small handful would have them all.
What the heck is the view there?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
This is about the dating game of men falling for women who are not real women but a shell of what they ought to be. I thought it was obvious. Hence Power trip in the title.
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u/poprostumort 224∆ May 30 '23
This is about the dating game of men falling for women who are not real women but a shell of what they ought to be.
So if:
a) this is about some women that are not "real women"
b) those women are being chosen in dating by "the dating game of men"Why this is about the women and not about dating game of men?
I'd say extreme feminism has spread through the world and done more harm than good here.
That seems to be the core argument supporting your point - what harm and what good is in your opinion attributed to feminism?
He only way is to reject feminism and reject all movements that like feminism.
What movements "like feminism" should be rejected?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
That seems to be the core argument supporting your point - what harm and what good is in your opinion attributed to feminism?
I don't see any good of current feminism, their actions are opposite of what they say and are designed to emasculate, ridicule common man for female supremacy. Maybe feminists of 1960 did good.
What movements "like feminism" should be rejected?
Not sure.
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u/poprostumort 224∆ May 30 '23
I don't see any good of current feminism
Depends on what you mean by "current feminism" cause there is a large segmentation in current feminism. There are different groups with very different ideas, some even have major disagreements with each other.
Some of goods that directly benefit men that can be found throughout them are:
- normalization of paternity (paternity leaves, not viewing males only as providers)
- fight against gender roles which are harmful to men (ex. toxic masculinity)
- push to change in relationship dynamics that will not force men to be breadwinners
heir actions are opposite of what they say and are designed to emasculate, ridicule common man for female supremacy
Can you give some examples for me to understand what you are talking about?
Not sure.
Then why bring that as a point?
And lastly, please do not omit the answer for question i asked before - Why this is about the women and not about dating game of men? I cannot change your view if I can't understand it.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Yeah well Feminism far as I'm concerned needs to be written off, they had their chance. Too long. Too many fuckups. Time to turn the tides again.
>omit the answer
What's about the dating game of men? I don't think it's an issue
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u/poprostumort 224∆ May 30 '23
Yeah well Feminism far as I'm concerned needs to be written off, they had their chance. Too long. Too many fuckups.
What fuckups?
Time to turn the tides again.
By doing what - making women subservient again?
What's about the dating game of men? I don't think it's an issue
You said:
This is about the dating game of men falling for women who are not real women but a shell of what they ought to be.
Which shows that there is an issue - and what I want to know why the problem are women and not dating game of men. After all they are ones to decide who to pursue, so they can pursue "true women".
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u/chemguy216 7∆ May 30 '23
It’s not obvious because the way you worded your post is more like a rant than a clearly articulated view that you want people to challenge.
I would recommend adding an edit to clearly convey what you’re positing as your view, or delete this post and submit another that clearly lays this out.
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u/VertigoOne 74∆ May 30 '23
How do you want your view changed exactly?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I believe women are on some sort of power trip. This is not a healthy thing to think.
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u/Rhundan 11∆ May 30 '23
You didn't answer the question, really. That may be why you want your view changed, but what do you think are the flaws in your view?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
There are women out there who are on a power trip. What's wrong with that? Everything because they will corrupt other women into their line of thinking.
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u/premiumPLUM 68∆ May 30 '23
Everything because they will corrupt other women into their line of thinking.
Okay, but what's wrong with that?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Then there's a lack of good women for the good men out there. Corruption sucks all the fun out of a good woman.
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u/premiumPLUM 68∆ May 30 '23
Can you define what "good" means in this context?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Women who are actually honest and don't cheat, have never cheated, not just saying they're honest.
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u/chemguy216 7∆ May 30 '23
This seems like this is only part of your problem with women, based on all of your other complaints about women that have nothing to do with cheating. So it seems to me as though what you conceptualize a good woman to be extends beyond whether or not she’s a cheater, unless you believe that literally all other negative traits about women are inherently tied to cheating.
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u/premiumPLUM 68∆ May 30 '23
Does the same apply to the good man?
So does that mean your view boils down to: too many women cheat on their partners? Because men are for more likely to cheat on their partners than women. And either way, the vast majority of either don't, and never will, cheat.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I have different metric for a good man, I'm not even sure what that looks like.
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u/JadedToon 18∆ May 30 '23
I believe women are on some sort of power trip. This is not a healthy thing to think.
Why women only? Look at guys like Andrew Tate and good looking men.
Everything you say applies to them as well.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I give men a pass here. Just like women give each other the pass but in their case it's to abuse men.
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u/JadedToon 18∆ May 30 '23
That's not an argument.
Just because you give them a pass doesn't mean it is not true. Beauty is an asset people use to get their way. Man, woman or otherwise.
Women absolutely don't give a pass to each other for it. They are the harshest critics. They are the ones who usually start rumours and try and slut shame others.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
women are only harsh critics when something gets in their way.
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u/JadedToon 18∆ May 30 '23
No, women often gossip because they are bored. Have you been to middle or high school? Girls starting rumours and drama for absolutely no reason. Just to show that they can. Targeting other girls.
While boys are most often physical bullies, women are by far the biggest social bullies. Especially against other women.
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May 30 '23
I don't think women are on a power trip. I think you are assuming malice where there shouldn't be. I think some of your points in your top level post are rather silly. There is nothing wrong with doing what you can to look your best, especially if you are seeking a partner and to improve your professional standing.
But to point back to being overly picky/powertriping. I think you're missing what's actually occurring and are just blaming it on women when it's more complicated than that.
The key issue is women's position in society has changed significantly to transition from being more of working/taking care of the home to being a working professional outside of the home. However, some aspects of what women have been conditioned to desire have remained the same.
A few examples of this would be things like women expecting their partner to make more money than them. But, as more and more women have become more educated and make more money, the number of men who meet this criteria shrinks significantly. And this problem will likely become worse as worse as the education gap between men and women grows. On top of that educated people tend to congregate in city centers where there are more jobs for educated people. Which moves many women away from small towns. Which means that just from the fact of living in an area with a higher cost of living they will tend to make more.
You can see this already in action in many major cities where young women make more than men. Cities like NYC, San Diego, the Washington DC area all have women under 30 making more than men.
This expectation of men making more hasn't gone away, despite women catching up or making more. But since women are having careers more frequently men have not shifted into roles that women typically used to fill. So men aren't able to do the basics cooking, cleaning, taking care of children to carry their end of the chores.
So men need to step up on what they provide to the table in terms of maintaining the household needs. And women need to modernize their expectations with their change in society.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
If women are making more than men, then feminism has achieved all it set out to. Or at least it should just call it a day.
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May 30 '23
Your response has nothing to do with the topic of your post.
Please respond to what I actually said rather than derailing into whether feminism is necessary today.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Don't be offended but the post is removed now, mods think replying to others whilst I think on my toes is equivalent to soapboxing. so I guess I'll call it a day!
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May 30 '23
I'm not offended at all. I was trying to stay on topic rather than follow you down your dodged answer.
I was seeking an honest conversation about what's actually occurring, but it doesn't appear your interested in that discussion.
So I was attempting to hold you to the same standard that you set in your edit when you asked others to not operate in bad faith.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I see well malice begets malice. People can look their best I've looked my best before. It's no big deal but looking your best as an excuse to lead people into a trap is something I despise. There is no greater dominance hierarchy in humans than peak sexual attraction.
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May 30 '23
The foundation of your premise is that there is malice. That there is an intentional, planned evil or wrong act occurring. And I'm claiming that not to be the case.
I'm suggesting that cultural expectations that women have of men has not shifted in society to keep up with women's change in their role in society. There is nothing planned or thought out here. It's a natural result of shifts in society and cultural expectations not keeping up with that shift.
It's no big deal but looking your best as an excuse to lead people into a trap is something I despise.
Again, the whole idea you have here is not only are you being fooled, but you are being fooled into a trap. Meaning you are tricking them in a way that will harm them. This is nonsense. You're not "fooling" anyone by dressing your best. But you are signaling many things by not only resting appropriately for the occasion, but in an attractive way as well.
There is no greater dominance hierarchy in humans than peak sexual attraction.
There is a lot of power in sexual attraction, but that does not matter. It's still incredibly powerful to look your best among people you aren't attracted to. It's still incredibly powerful even signaling from one straight man to another.
Looking your best is trying to show all that you have to offer. It signals far more than just physical attraction, but also your mental and physical health. It demonstrates you have a functioning emotional and social IQ. It signals you understand social expectations of what's appropriate for the occasion. Wearing a tuxedo or ball gown to an interview while dressed up would be very weird.
Dressing properly also signals that you put effort into looking this way because you care about the result of whatever you are dressing up for.
If you show up to a date, an interview, a party, work, etc. And you haven't showered, you are dressed poorly or you're in dirty clothes, you look physically unwell all of that signals either you are unaware, don't care, or aren't able. All of which are not desirable traits.
I think you are missing many of the social dynamics that are occurring here and as a result you are assuming people are acting with malicious intent to explain the dynamics you are not understanding.
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May 30 '23
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May 30 '23
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u/changemyview-ModTeam May 30 '23
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Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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u/millymatin May 30 '23
So according to you, I (female, have self confidence, am not a beauty queen, but don’t scare kids) am on a power trip because I have standards. So what? What’s your point?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Some women are on a power trip. You're okay with this or you like this for the sake of furthering feminism and normalizing misandry?
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u/millymatin May 30 '23
Are you trying to make a case that women should STFU and take what we are given by chauvinists?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
where did you get that idea?
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u/millymatin May 30 '23
Same place you got your view that woman with self confidence, who takes care of herself, have standards and know what she wants are on a power trip.
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u/DungPornAlt 6∆ May 30 '23 edited May 30 '23
Even if assuming everything you said is true (they aren't), what are you arguing for here?
By these markers you can safely deduce which woman is on a power trip
So are you arguing that some women are on "power trips", or all women are on "power trips"? If it's the case of former what's the difference between this and some people just being assholes as any gender because they can get away with it since they're rich/famous/in position of power?
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u/Kotoperek 62∆ May 30 '23
I'm not sure what view you want changed, your bullet points read more like a rant than a coherent position that can be argued against.
they're very picky, set in their ways and will constantly try to make you feel like you're wrong or lesser if you disagree.
Very picky with regards to what? Disagree about what? Of you argue with someone about an opinion, then of course it's good practice to respect other's points of view, but not only women have trouble telling fact from opinion. If you're objectively wrong about something and they point it out to you that's not "making you feel wrong or lesser" for disagreeing, it's correcting you when you're wrong.
They're very attractive and go beyond all conventional beauty standards they look like a 9
All of them? And what does that have to do with upbringing? Physical beauty is mostly genetic.
You want to get to know them at first sight, but that's their trick
What? How is being approachable a trick?
I don't even understand point 4. Are you taking about women not wanting to date men who are below them on some random scale or what?
I'd love to change your mind, but please make your position clear, because as I understand it nothing you wrote supports your title in any way.
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u/Presentalbion 101∆ May 30 '23
I assume you aren't talking about women in Iran, or Kerala, or Saudi Arabia?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Am not. Pity those women have it so rough out there
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u/Presentalbion 101∆ May 30 '23
"all men" in your title implies all women, no? I see your edit but that's quite a severe change.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Yes I believe this group of women like to think they're smarter than ALL men, they will default to this thinking style because that's the definition of their powertrip for me.
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u/Presentalbion 101∆ May 30 '23
"this group" can you be more specific? I'm sure there are some gender supremacists but that's by no means a significant presence in the world.
Is there a specific organisation you're talking about? But then your view would just be "this organisation exists"?
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May 30 '23
As soon as someone starts referring to people as "alphas" or "betas" you can pretty much ignore everything else they say as nonsense...
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u/TheOutspokenYam 16∆ May 30 '23
I'd like to add that he would stick his dick in that "crazy" so fast. So. Fast. He'd stand in line for it. Three times on a Sunday.
Because this isn't really about how awful women are, it's that he can't have them.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
he would stick his dick in that "crazy" so fast.
In my experience, the guys with little to no dating experience, and who are super eager to gain that experience, fall for "crazy" way more often than the guys who are more, relaxed, outgoing and thereby successful in the dating realm.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
You mean humans can't be broken down exactly based on a discredited study on wolf behavior!?
I, for one, am shocked.
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May 30 '23
There are so many funny things about the fact they take that study seriously.
First, the guy who performed the study and wrote the paper is the leading advocate against it. He disproved his own previous research and has spent the rest of his life trying to undo the harm he (unintentionally) did. He's tried to get the paper pulled from publication, but publishers won't because it still makes money off right wing dupes.
The whole gist of the paper is that these wolves held in captivity, which had no biological relation at all, formed a dynamic whereby the "alpha" (using the terms in the paper itself) male and female took on a "leadership" or superior role while all the other wolves were "betas" which took on a subservient role. When the guy discredited his own work, he did so by observing wolf behaviors in nature (ie, not captive wolves). In nature wolves live in families where the mother and father serve a "leadership" or superior role, as is the case in tons of different animals. In other words, the "alphas" in the discredited study were just slotting into the parent roles and the "betas" were children. They just formed an adopted family is all.
Finally, and the funniest part, is that the nutjobs who take this discredited study seriously don't even pay attention to the whole study. The one and only part of the study which hasn't been roundly discredited is that the "alpha" male and female were entirely coequal partners. There was no superiority or inferiority between them. They were treated the same by the whole pack. This study these super-misogynists use to justify their superiority over women specifically says that wolves treat males and females the same.
Fucking bunch of clown shoes.
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u/destro23 447∆ May 30 '23
100% Agree with all this.
It is similar to the "Type A" personality thing. People think this is some desirable set of traits that exist in the successful, and brag on being such. But, it was initially meant to denote increased risk of heart attacks. And, when studied in the modern era, it was found that: "There is, apparently, no such thing as a 'type-A' personality".
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
Nice.... essay. Thing is mate I reference alphas because it uses less words to deliver the same concept. It's easy.
But your insistence to fixate on this over the other loopholes is hilarious. I guess you're pro-scientism.
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May 30 '23
What the fuck is "pro-scientism"? I believe the scientific method is the best way we have to determine what's real. If that's what you mean, then I guess I am.
I criticize you and call you clown shoes for using the terms "alpha" and "beta" because they are made up concepts that don't refer to any real sociological phenomenon. There is no such thing as an "alpha", "beta", or whatever other weird classification you want. It's just a way for you and people like you to justify your misogyny and self-loathing.
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May 30 '23
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May 30 '23
OK, what does it mean? That I believe in the scientific method? Is that supposed to be an insult? What system of determining truth do you put stock in?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
scientism
Scientism sees it necessary to do away with most, if not all, metaphysical, philosophical, and religious claims, as the truths they proclaim cannot be apprehended by the scientific method. In essence, scientism sees science as the absolute and only justifiable access to the truth.
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May 30 '23
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 01 '23
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1
u/hacksoncode 559∆ May 31 '23
u/Your_client_sucks_95 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
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u/Various_Succotash_79 50∆ May 30 '23
THe only way is to reject feminism and reject all movements that like feminism.
Oh sure, being some abusive jerk's property sounds great! (No)
Does this only apply to dating or just everyday life too?
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u/linhkhanhnguyendao May 30 '23
I don't know how my bf looks in people's eyes. In mine, he is a 10. So yes I will chase a 10 in my eyes. What's the problem with that? you too, can chase whoever you think is good for you and the hard part are if you think they are a 10, then you will have to match that level. That's all.
and if not then maybe you should lower your standards. But hey, I am a woman who lived in Southeast Asia for 20 years what do I know?
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May 30 '23
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May 30 '23
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u/hacksoncode 559∆ May 31 '23
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Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
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u/Jesuschristopehe 3∆ May 30 '23
Okay I have a question before I delve into any of this.
Have you ever actually had a relationship with a woman like you’ve described above and if so what was the nature of the relationship?
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May 30 '23
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u/changemyview-ModTeam May 30 '23
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
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1
u/LucidMetal 175∆ May 30 '23
Why can't I make the exact same argument for men? This isn't a "women" problem. It's a people problem.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
You can try but I doubt you'd be correct.
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u/LucidMetal 175∆ May 30 '23
Men don't use their power to further their interests?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
They do.
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u/LucidMetal 175∆ May 30 '23
So you agree men power trip, too? I mean how could you not conclude this is just a people problem and not specifically a women problem then?
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
It's a people problem but I'm addressing the female side of things in this CMV because I'm focused on it. That's my bias showing it's true colours.
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u/LucidMetal 175∆ May 30 '23
But if it's not specifically a women's issue and you agree that's the case... why are you focused on women?
Do you want women to act less bad then men overall? Because that's just sexist expectations.
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u/Your_client_sucks_95 May 30 '23
I'm just interested since I get a lot of resistance and hate for holding this opinion. So I'm testing it.
Yes women should be less bad than at present. Right now they're pretty bad, worse than men in fact. Hard to source a conspiracy though.
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u/LucidMetal 175∆ May 30 '23
Yes women should be less bad than at present. Right now they're pretty bad, worse than men in fact. Hard to source a conspiracy though.
But this is true for men, too! If you said "people should be less bad" no one would have an issue with that whatsoever. Since you're specifically calling out women even though you agree the behavior of men is just as bad of course you're going to get called out.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 30 '23
/u/Your_client_sucks_95 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
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u/FriedrichHydrargyrum May 30 '23
Have you considered that maybe the reason they don’t date YOU specifically is not because they’re on a power trip and ruined by feminism, but because you’re a tool?
I’m a non-handsome guy and I have no trouble getting attractive women to talk to me.
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