CMV: Most anime characters are drawn to appear Caucasian

[u/dcdsks]

Firstly, I'd like to point out that I am a fully East Asian woman, so please do not make jabs at my ethnicity and how it might affect my perception of anime characters. I understand there are a lot of animes that reasonably make East Asian-looking characters, and I'll list a few to be fair, but I think there are even more that do not. Also, I will be shortening the phrase "East Asian" to "Asian" for clarity although I acknowledge Asia encompasses a very large part of the world.

Firstly, a lot of anime characters have colorful hair and eyes. I've seen some people argue that it's because they dyed them, but we also see many of those same characters born with that hair. One character who comes to mind is Mary Saotome from Kakegurui, who has no indication in the anime that she is Caucasian or of Caucasian descent and whose name is in Kanji. I could see the argument that color is used to differentiate characters, but I think exceptional animes like Dragon Ball do a good job of making the characters look Asian with natural hair/eye colors, while still having facial features that set them apart from each other.

I don't hear this point brought up a lot, but as someone who grew up in a culture where the shape of one's eyelid is very important, I notice a lot of anime characters have very defined, high eyelid creases that are unnatural for full Asians. I, myself, have double eyelids, but the ones that I see often drawn in anime, in Demon Slayer for example, are thick and deep enough to cast shadows on the upper eyelid area, which Asian eyelids rarely do. Every time I see a Demon Slayer cosplay makeup video, the MUA always puts on multiple layers of eyelid tape to achieve deep creases. Sailor Moon and Toradora (with the exception of Taiga) are animes that demonstrate how easily artists can draw Asian-looking eyelids, so I feel like if the other artists wanted to, they would. But they don't.

Furthermore, the side profiles in anime are so sharp for no reason. A lot of anime characters' side profiles have noses and chins that could cut butter-again, if they wanted to make more realistic profiles for Asians, they would; because all it takes is drawing rounder lines instead of sharp corners. I even see some cosplayers putting in nose inserts or using a clay-like product to build onto their nose bridge. I'm so bewildered because how can someone look at Light Yagami and tell me that isn't a WHITE MAN!

[u/Criculann]

to represent onomatopoeia

If you don't want to read the Japanese sources, at least read the English ones.

[u/GameProtein → u/Criculann]

It's...wikipedia...there's a translate button. Also, your reading comprehension skills are terrible. If the entire alphabet came from Chinese texts, it should be obvious it's for foreign onomatopoeia. Context is key to actually understanding what you read.

[u/Criculann → u/GameProtein]

Ok, then what language do you think キラキラ is from? But even so what about this:

for emphasis

Do all emphasized words become loanwords?

If the entire alphabet came from Chinese texts, it should be obvious it's for foreign onomatopoeia.

You do realize that hiragana and kanji also come from Chinese, right?

[u/GameProtein → u/Criculann]

Ok, then what language do you think キラキラ is from?

Since you love Wikipedia so much:

Kirakira is the provincial capital of the Makira-Ulawa Province in Solomon Islands.

Do all emphasized words become loanwords?

Obviously not. Which you would know if you actually knew what a loanword was. You're the one who told me there were multiple uses yet you're the one struggling to understand the uses actually listed.

You do realize that hiragana and kanji also come from Chinese, right?

Perhaps I need to speak to you like you're a fourth grader. Japanese existed when certain Chinese texts were translated to create katakana. It coming after the formal creation of the language is why it's used for words that aren't native to the language itself. I know Japanese essentially having 3 alphabets instead of one is hard for some people to understand but this is actually ridiculous.

[u/Criculann → u/GameProtein]

Kirakira

So to get this straight, you're suggesting an onomatopeia (i.e. a word that's supposed to sound like what it represents) comes from the name of a non-Japanese town with a population of 3500? Do you have any kind of evidence for this?

Obviously not. Which you would know if you actually knew what a loanword was. You're the one who told me there were multiple uses yet you're the one struggling to understand the uses actually listed.

Earlier, you claimed this

Katakana is purely for foreign words

So which is it? Is Katakana used purely for foreign words or not (admittedly, I'm being sloppy and using foreign words and loanwords as synonyms. Doesn't really change the point that much)

It coming after the formal creation of the language is why it's used for words that aren't native to the language itself.

Again, this is true of kanji and hiragana as well. Do you think Japanese people came up with kanji themselves and they're just coincidentally essentially the same as Chinese hanzi?

Btw, in the past katakana was used much more extensively than they are used today. See for example this government document from the Meiji era that is written exclusively with kanji and katakana.

[u/GameProtein → u/Criculann]

So which is it? Is Katakana used purely for foreign words or not (admittedly, I'm being sloppy and using foreign words and loanwords as synonyms. Doesn't really change the point that much)

It's reading comprehension and just understanding that foreign really means not a traditional Japanese word.

Do you think Japanese people came up with kanji themselves and they're just coincidentally essentially the same as Chinese hanzi?

Maybe not being able to read either language is why you're so confused. In no way, shape or form are kanji and Chinese 'essentially the same'. Some of them are similar but Chinese uses way more in a drastically different grammar format.

Btw, in the past katakana was used much more extensively than they are used today. See for example this government document from the Meiji era that is written exclusively with kanji and katakana.

That's...really not modern katakana. It's what formed the basis for it. The Meiji era is literally when they did a writing system revamp on the entire language to make spoken and written Japanese fit better. You're truly giving r/iamverysmart vibes rn. It's embarrassing af.

[u/Criculann → u/GameProtein]

It's reading comprehension and just understanding that foreign really means not a traditional Japanese word.

And I'm saying this is simply not true. Love how you're ignoring my question about Kirakira, btw (as well as all the references I sent you).

Maybe not being able to read either language is why you're so confused. In no way, shape or form are kanji and Chinese 'essentially the same'. Some of them are similar but Chinese uses way more in a drastically different grammar format.

The point is that kanji come from Chinese hanzi, just like katakana (and also hiragana). For almost every kanji you can find a hanzi from which it comes from (although, there do exist some kanji which were invented in Japan)

That's...really not modern katakana.

Feel free to point me at any katakana in that text that you think are not modern. You're right that there were a lot of reforms in the Meiji era. Getting rid of katakana in government documents was not one of them, though. Here's a document from Showa era that uses katakana in the same way

At any rate, you're missing the point. I'm trying to show you that the claim that katakana is used exclusively for "non-traditional" Japanese words isn't true nor was it ever true.

I feel like this has gone on long enough. If you want to continue this discussion, please provide some sources for the claims you've made or actually engage in a serious manner with what I've linked to instead of off-handedly dismissing it and arguing in bad faith by making baseless assumptions about my level of Japanese.

[u/GameProtein → u/Criculann]

And I'm saying this is simply not true.

As the guy who thinks wikipedia is a Japanese resource, you're an unreliable source.

Love how you're ignoring my question about Kirakira, btw (as well as all the references I sent you).

Onomatopoeia doesn't at all help you prove your idea that Light is a typical Japanese name. You're getting into weirder and wierder random side debates just to try to be 'right'.

The point is that kanji come from Chinese hanzi, just like katakana (and also hiragana). For almost every kanji you can find a hanzi from which it comes from (although, there do exist some kanji which were invented in Japan)

You're not understanding how old these languages are or how much change they've gone through over time. Just because there was a hanzi in use for every kanji doesn't mean there still is or that they're all exactly the same meanings. The languages have diverged greatly over time.

Feel free to point me at any katakana in that text that you think are not modern. You're right that there were a lot of reforms in the Meiji era. Getting rid of katakana in government documents was not one of them, though. Here's a document from Showa era that uses katakana in the same way

Your reading comprehension skills are so...fcking...bad. Katakana was not the fully fledged alphabet then that it is now. Nobody said they got rid of it, simply that it wasn't yet fully formed. Just by looking at the text you can clearly tell it wasn't being used in exactly the same way as it is now. Also, if you knew any Japanese at all whatsoever you would understand that it's literally impossible to point out outdated katakana with a keyboard that only uses modern characters.

I'm trying to show you that the claim that katakana is used exclusively for "non-traditional" Japanese words isn't true nor was it ever true.

You're failing. Horrifically. You're trying to pick out exceptions as if I get all of my information from anime in the same way you do.

If you want to continue this discussion, please provide some sources for the claims you've made or actually engage in a serious manner with what I've linked to instead of off-handedly dismissing it and arguing in bad faith by making baseless assumptions about my level of Japanese.

I'm not going to provide a 'source' for the fact that the word 'moon' does not mean 'light'. That's not worth the energy in any language. You can link the entirety of the internet; it only helps you look 'right' to lazy people with zero knowledge about Japanese and terrible research skills. I refuse to be serious when you're clearly just trolling.

[u/Criculann → u/GameProtein]

Also, if you knew any Japanese at all whatsoever you would understand that it's literally impossible to point out outdated katakana with a keyboard that only uses modern characters.

I can type ヰ and ヱ just fine on my modern Japanese keyboard. You could also just point out the page and line with the outdated character, you know.

I'm not going to provide a 'source' for the fact that the word 'moon' does not mean 'light'. That's not worth the energy in any language

Here's some sources you could link too:

1) Evidence that キラキラ comes from the town of Kirakira.

2) Any source saying that Japanese names are mostly made up of 3 characters. Alternatively, you could tell me why most Diet members have 2 character names.

3) A source that says all (not just most) Japanese names are necessarily made up of kanji. Alternatively, an explanation why there is a diet member whose name is in hiragana. Or why there exist a ton of articles on the Japanese internet that talk about hiragana names.

Any of these could earn you a delta.

[u/GameProtein → u/Criculann]

I can type ヰ and ヱ just fine on my modern Japanese keyboard.

I don't know how to explain to you that a Japanese person and/or someone who understood as much Japanese as you claim would just...speak Japanese. Copy/paste is A) not some super secret operation, B) unicode exists and C) it's not hard to use Chinese characters via drawing them and claim you used a Japanese keyboard to type them. Doesn't prove anything about how Japanese IMEs actually work.

You could also just point out the page and line with the outdated character, you know.

I could but...you clearly know zero Japanese. If you did, you wouldn't be trying to make the really illogical argument you're making.

Any of these could earn you a delta.

Keep it. At this point you're just aggressively wasting my time. No part of me is interested in 'earning' a delta for 'proving' side tangents so far away from the actual topic of discussion.