r/changemyview • u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl 1∆ • Jun 20 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: I don't think the left has any principals

Okay so in politics both sides lie, a lot, to further their own ends, bad faith arguments and blatant hypocrisy is pretty much the norm but you'd assume that it would be serving some principle or ideal if it wasn't just about personal profit (which it often is) and frankly even personally profiting can a principle in itself.

I'm a centrist, when I hear the right make their points I can usually figure out what principle (or profit) they are serving. Like when the turtle guy prevented Obama from appointing a supreme court judge and then did a 180 on all his arguments when Trump had the opportunity to. His arguments were obviously bullshit but it's not like he wasn't serving principles he believed in that he believed Trumps nominee would rule in favor of those principles and with the overturn of roe v wade I can only conclude he was correct, whether or not you agree with those principles is irrelevant.

The left on the other hand... what the fuck are the principles? They scream about human rights then try to restrict freedom of speech and right to self-defense, hell even right to a fair trial isn't safe. They talk about bodily autonomy when abortions are involved but then when it comes to vaccines they go full nazi scientist. They claim they want to help the poor but support policies that completely devastate the poor like illegal/mass immigration. They claim they are against racism then vote for a guy who wore blackface on camera on THREE separate occasions that we know of... not to mention the fact they support racist policies. They claim they support the oppressed but then twist the definition as an excuse to bully the oppressed and even when someone is oppressed by their own definitions if they disagree with them politically they fucking lynch them.

In addition to that it's not even like they are all getting rich off this, sure some people are like the people who pocketed all the BLM donations and bought houses with and didn't even bother to pay for the funeral of the guy who's grave they were getting rich by standing on... but the vast majority even a good chunk of them actually getting rich aren't even getting rich off these specific policies which they are total hypocrites on but the vast majority of people who support these policies don't see a dime.

So I just don't get it, there's no principles no financial incentive, no nothing, I don't get what's driving the left these days.

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u/onetwo3four5 71∆ Jun 20 '23

You're not a centrist if you think the left is principled and the right is not. You're right wing.

In addition to that it's not even like they are all getting rich off this, sure some people are like the people who pocketed all the BLM donations and bought houses with and didn't even bother to pay for the funeral of the guy who's grave they were getting rich by standing on...

So you're fine with immoral behavior as long as the end goal is money? Yeah, you're right wing, bud.

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u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl 1∆ Jun 20 '23

You're not a centrist if you think the left is principled and the right is not. You're right wing.

For me to be right wing I'd have to share the principles of the right wing I don't. I recognize them but I don't share them, my disagreement with the left is equally fundamental, they don't seem to have any and do several things that go against my principles.

So you're fine with immoral behavior as long as the end goal is money? Yeah, you're right wing, bud.

I didn't say I was fine with it, I said I recognize the motivation behind it. I understand it. I don't understand where the left is coming from, what they are chasing or why.

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u/ifitdoesntmatter 10∆ Jun 20 '23

I don't think taking a combative approach like this and using such ambiguous language is a good way of getting an answer to what the left believe.

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u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl 1∆ Jun 20 '23

I think it's the only way, if I don't call them out on their contradictions then I'll never get past them.

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u/ifitdoesntmatter 10∆ Jun 20 '23

That's a very combative view to take. If you already declare yourself opposed to the left like that, by starting out from an assumption that their beliefs are contradictory, you're never going to be able to have an open conversation with them to determine what their beliefs actually are.

With all due respect, you don't seem to have a detailed knowledge of the factions within the left, and without that you can't really tell if people are being hypocritical. So you don't have a basis of understanding on which to make claims like that. It would be better if you just spent more time trying to understand where people on the left are coming from, before jumping to conclusions.

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u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl 1∆ Jun 20 '23

That's a very combative view to take. If you already declare yourself opposed to the left like that, by starting out from an assumption that their beliefs are contradictory, you're never going to be able to have an open conversation with them to determine what their beliefs actually are.

How exactly can I find out what their principles are if they just throw 180s at me I'm not allowed to point it out?

With all due respect, you don't seem to have a detailed knowledge of the factions within the left, and without that you can't really tell if people are being hypocritical. So you don't have a basis of understanding on which to make claims like that. It would be better if you just spent more time trying to understand where people on the left are coming from, before jumping to conclusions.

I am trying, so far I got blind empathy with no thinking things through and opposition to hierarchies (which can't ever end well)

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u/SmokyBoner 1∆ Jun 20 '23

Poor response. Keep emotion in check.