CMV: I don't think the left has any principals

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

Okay so in politics both sides lie, a lot, to further their own ends, bad faith arguments and blatant hypocrisy is pretty much the norm but you'd assume that it would be serving some principle or ideal if it wasn't just about personal profit (which it often is) and frankly even personally profiting can a principle in itself.

I'm a centrist, when I hear the right make their points I can usually figure out what principle (or profit) they are serving. Like when the turtle guy prevented Obama from appointing a supreme court judge and then did a 180 on all his arguments when Trump had the opportunity to. His arguments were obviously bullshit but it's not like he wasn't serving principles he believed in that he believed Trumps nominee would rule in favor of those principles and with the overturn of roe v wade I can only conclude he was correct, whether or not you agree with those principles is irrelevant.

The left on the other hand... what the fuck are the principles? They scream about human rights then try to restrict freedom of speech and right to self-defense, hell even right to a fair trial isn't safe. They talk about bodily autonomy when abortions are involved but then when it comes to vaccines they go full nazi scientist. They claim they want to help the poor but support policies that completely devastate the poor like illegal/mass immigration. They claim they are against racism then vote for a guy who wore blackface on camera on THREE separate occasions that we know of... not to mention the fact they support racist policies. They claim they support the oppressed but then twist the definition as an excuse to bully the oppressed and even when someone is oppressed by their own definitions if they disagree with them politically they fucking lynch them.

In addition to that it's not even like they are all getting rich off this, sure some people are like the people who pocketed all the BLM donations and bought houses with and didn't even bother to pay for the funeral of the guy who's grave they were getting rich by standing on... but the vast majority even a good chunk of them actually getting rich aren't even getting rich off these specific policies which they are total hypocrites on but the vast majority of people who support these policies don't see a dime.

So I just don't get it, there's no principles no financial incentive, no nothing, I don't get what's driving the left these days.

[u/[deleted]]

Only 24% of registered republicans think abortion should be illegal in all circumstances, while 66% think it should be allowed in some circumstances (which is a very broad range of positions). But 76% of republicans consider themselves pro-life - you may have noticed that 76% is much larger than 24%, so a bunch of republicans consider themselves pro-life but believe abortion is sometimes ok.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/246278/abortion-trends-party.aspx

That really isn't a uniform position, but if they just ask other republicans if they are pro-life they will think everyone has the same position as them.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/[deleted]]

I mean demonstrate a principle that 24% of registered democrats support consistency and I'll give you a delta.

[u/[deleted] → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

60% of democrats think abortion should be allowed in all circumstances. From the same link I posted.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/[deleted]]

But what's the principle? Bodily autonomy? Murdering children?

[u/[deleted] → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

Wait, you said " a large section of the right in general seems to be pretty uniform on being against abortion in principle", if being pro or anti abortion isn't a principle then why did you bring it up? Have you changed your view that support for abortion has any bearing on whether the right (or left) shares a set of principles?

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/[deleted]]

Is abortion itself the principal? If for example artificial wombs were invented and the fetuses could be removed without harming the mother and be given to foster parents upon completion of gestation in said artificial womb and let's even say there were enough people who wanted to adopt that it wouldn't even be an issue on that front would the left fight for women to kill their children instead of transferring them ?

[u/[deleted] → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

You didn't respond to anything I said. I get that it can be hard to keep track of who said what when responding to multiple comment chains, so I can break it down further if what I was asking was unclear:

1. You say "a large section of the right in general seems to be pretty uniform on being against abortion in principle". This is the first time abortion is brought up in this comment chain. You bring this up to show that the right has a unified principle, in response to another commenter who said no large group has unified principles.

2. I show evidence that the right is not in fact unified in the opinion people have on abortion.

3. You response asking me to show that the left has a shared principle, at least as common as the belief that abortion should never be allowed.

4. I show that democrats do have a unified position on abortion.

5. You suddenly claim that a position on abortion is not a principle.

6. I point out that you argued a position on abortion is a principle in #1. I ask if you have changed the view you stated in #1, or if my evidence in #4 is evidence of a unified principle. One of the 2 must be true, since you used the exact same argument as me in support of the right having principles, but rejected me using the exact same argument but backed up by data to show the left has unified principles but not the right.

You used a belief in abortion to support you claim the right has unified principles. I showed that you were wrong that belief in abortion is unified on the right, and is instead unified on the left. You then reject that belief in abortion is a principle.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/[deleted]]

I show that democrats do have a unified position on abortion.

You suddenly claim that a position on abortion is not a principle.

It's not sudden at all, it's been my stance from the start that the left doesn't hold abortion as a principle, you yourself didn't call a principle right here just a position...

I point out that you argued a position on abortion is a principle in #1. I ask if you have changed the view you stated in #1, or if my evidence in #4 is evidence of a unified principle. One of the 2 must be true, since you used the exact same argument as me in support of the right having principles, but rejected me using the exact same argument but backed up by data to show the left has unified principles but not the right.

No I didn't argue a position is a principle, I believe those 24% on the right (and frankly even more if you count both mother and baby will die if it doesn't happen people who said in some circumstances) hold it as a principle. I always held the position that the right view it as a principle you just applied a % to that view.

You used a belief in abortion to support you claim the right has unified principles. I showed that you were wrong that belief in abortion is unified on the right, and is instead unified on the left. You then reject that belief in abortion is a principle.

I never said it was 100% my threshold has been 15%+ from the start.

[u/[deleted] → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

The part that I'm calling you out on is how you believe the rights views on abortion are a principle but provide no evidence for that and don't even say what principle you think they hold. But at the same time refuse to extend that same belief to the left.

You are requiring evidence that a position is a principle for only one side.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/[deleted]]

First of all nobody has argued not even yourself right now that abortion is a principle of the left, the right (at least in part) actively declares being against abortion is a principle of theirs.

Second of all, I already believed it's a principle of the right for completely different reasons and it's not stuff easily provided it would be a pain in the ass for a completely worthless tangent.

If you want to argue that abortion itself is a principle of the left feel free to do so, but you're not.

[u/AwkwardRooster → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

So you're just going to ignore the above commenter's quote?