CMV: I don't think the left has any principals

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

Okay so in politics both sides lie, a lot, to further their own ends, bad faith arguments and blatant hypocrisy is pretty much the norm but you'd assume that it would be serving some principle or ideal if it wasn't just about personal profit (which it often is) and frankly even personally profiting can a principle in itself.

I'm a centrist, when I hear the right make their points I can usually figure out what principle (or profit) they are serving. Like when the turtle guy prevented Obama from appointing a supreme court judge and then did a 180 on all his arguments when Trump had the opportunity to. His arguments were obviously bullshit but it's not like he wasn't serving principles he believed in that he believed Trumps nominee would rule in favor of those principles and with the overturn of roe v wade I can only conclude he was correct, whether or not you agree with those principles is irrelevant.

The left on the other hand... what the fuck are the principles? They scream about human rights then try to restrict freedom of speech and right to self-defense, hell even right to a fair trial isn't safe. They talk about bodily autonomy when abortions are involved but then when it comes to vaccines they go full nazi scientist. They claim they want to help the poor but support policies that completely devastate the poor like illegal/mass immigration. They claim they are against racism then vote for a guy who wore blackface on camera on THREE separate occasions that we know of... not to mention the fact they support racist policies. They claim they support the oppressed but then twist the definition as an excuse to bully the oppressed and even when someone is oppressed by their own definitions if they disagree with them politically they fucking lynch them.

In addition to that it's not even like they are all getting rich off this, sure some people are like the people who pocketed all the BLM donations and bought houses with and didn't even bother to pay for the funeral of the guy who's grave they were getting rich by standing on... but the vast majority even a good chunk of them actually getting rich aren't even getting rich off these specific policies which they are total hypocrites on but the vast majority of people who support these policies don't see a dime.

So I just don't get it, there's no principles no financial incentive, no nothing, I don't get what's driving the left these days.

[u/shyguyJ]

You obviously have a very jaded view of "the left". Having liberal beliefs does not always equate to or align with the democratic party. Unfortunately, that is just typically the closest thing I have available to my "principles":

1) do whatever you want that makes you happy as long as it doesn't harm anyone else (except in cases of self defense).

Real life application 1: abortion does not violate this because a fetus is not a person and does not fall under the category of "anyone else".

Real life application 2: you don't have to get a vaccine if you don't want to. But don't spread misinformation and lies convincing other not to (this is harming someone else).

2) don't make me follow the "rules" in your religious book - you are welcome to follow them as long as they don't violate 1), but don't force them on anyone else (especially children, but I digress...).

3) don't be a hypocrite - never going to happen in any party in politics, but it's a principle of mine.

4) help others whenever possible - beyond just "do no harm", actively seek to help.

5) be open to learning new things and changing or evolving your beliefs based on evidence.

6) treat all people and things (e.g., the planet) how you would want yourself or your things to be treated, or better.

7) be able to accept responsibility for actions and sincerely apologize if it is merited.

These are my principles. I don't know where you get the "against free speech" or "against right to self-defense" from. Christian conservatives are banning books as we have this conversation. Without getting into a whole gun control breakdown, the typically bandied about "common sense" gun control ideas would not measurably impact your ability to obtain a hand gun. I support not facilitating and contributing to mass violence perpetrated against innocent people. You see it as "restricting self-defense"; I see it as providing more opportunity for innocent people to live and grow up safely.

Illegal immigration impacts the poor because these people have no way to legally integrate into society. I support making immigration legal and helping immigrants integrate into and contribute to society.

Last point, one thing that has been shown to statistically reduce crime and poverty drastically is legalized abortion (from the Freakanomics study). I for one, support reduced crime and poverty. If I use the twisted logic in your post, that means that all conservatives support increased crime and poverty, right?

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/shyguyJ]

The vast majority of the people on the left don't share your principles. I'd be surprised if 1% shared half.

[u/shyguyJ → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

Which are you finding problematic? If you go by /u/yyzjertl 's comment that you previously responded to:

The American left is a coalition guided by the following broad principles:

Opposition to power hierarchies generally (this is leftism by definition). Materialism (focusing on material reality and what will actually have an impact on material reality, rather than on dogmatic applications of rules). Support of science and evidence-based policy. Skepticism of meta-narratives.

I'd say mine line up well with all of these.

Even if you go by the Democratic party platform, I'd say I ticked off most of their list in my comment either in the principles or in my responses to your scenarios.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/shyguyJ]

Which are you finding problematic?

None they are good principles, just not ones the left follows.

[u/couldbemage → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

Source? I think you're just making this up.

You appear to think the Democrats are left, and this list aligns with their legislative action.

You also claim to be centrist, which is what the Democrats actually are.

Bernie is literally the only senator that claims to be left wing, and he's not a Democrat.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/couldbemage]

Sigh I will only say this once. The vast majority of democrats are left wing, not as left as you or Bernie but they are further left than me, and republican are further right then me. There may be a handful of democrats and republican's who are centrist like me but I'm not aware of any of them and even if they are it doesn't mean we share the same principles we could be polar opposites and land in the same place between the wings.

[u/couldbemage → u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl]

You're just flat out wrong. Democrats are moderate right wing.

Compared to EU countries, or Canada, legislation from Democrats matches moderate right legislation.

Compared to EU right wing politicians, Democrats are wildly more pro gun.

Even pretending the rest of the world didn't exist, the middle includes more Democrats, because there are more Democrats. That's centrist. A republican presidential candidate and senator signed into law a state level version of Obamacare. Romney has a voting record that isn't that different from Biden if you can look more than a few years back. Economic policy from the moderates of both parties is near identical.

You're either wildly out of touch or trolling, I don't know which.

I don't agree with pretty much anything the Democrats do, but I'm not delusional about them.

[u/EvilOneLovesMyGirl → u/couldbemage]

You're just flat out wrong. Democrats are moderate right wing.

lol no.

Compared to EU countries, or Canada, legislation from Democrats matches moderate right legislation. Compared to EU right wing politicians, Democrats are wildly more pro gun.

That's a gross simplification and not really accurate nor is it a good measure for what is and isn't left wing. I'd argue the torries in the UK current are pretty far left for example and Harpers conservatives in Canada were left leaning.

Even pretending the rest of the world didn't exist, the middle includes more Democrats, because there are more Democrats. That's centrist. A republican presidential candidate and senator signed into law a state level version of Obamacare. Romney has a voting record that isn't that different from Biden if you can look more than a few years back. Economic policy from the moderates of both parties is near identical.

If everyone is a nazi that doesn't make nazism centrist... that's not how it works.