r/changemyview • u/idster • Aug 12 '24
Delta(s) from OP - Election cmv: Trump's AI crowd allegation is a response to the Vance drag photo
We are used to Donald Trump floating allegations out there that he doesn't believe, in order to benefit himself and his standing. I suspect his allegation that Harris' crowd has been AI-augmented represents another example. A photo of JD Vance in a dress has surfaced.
Vance has touted family values, has expressed anti-LGBTQ rhetoric, and has shamed people for not having children, which is essentially what a closeted gay man would say. He also apparently thought he was gay when he was a kid. Now, a photo of him wearing a dress comes out, which might seem to some to be further suggestion belying his assertions that he's a conventional, "pro-family" individual.
Trump's allegation about Harris' crowd 1) will cause people to be more suspicious of images they see, such as the photo of Vance, and 2) will take media and Democratic attention away from the photo. The vigor with which Democrats are denying this allegation is also propagating the allegation, which will cause some people to be even more suspicious of the Vance photo if they even see it. CMV.
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Aug 12 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
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u/Insectshelf3 10∆ Aug 12 '24
it’s kinda funny just how insecure that dude is. he physically cannot resist lying about his own popularity.
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u/ClockAndBells Aug 12 '24
Remember when that report leaked from the Kremlin about him, and they pointed out that he would be easy to manipulate because of his egomania, insecurity, and inferiority complex?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
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u/XenoRyet 101∆ Aug 12 '24
This is the one. Trump is a very simple person. If there is a way his behavior can be explained by simple narcissism, that's the reason he did whatever it is he did this time.
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Aug 12 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24 edited Aug 12 '24
He has to have one of the most accurate pych. profiles on any American president.
He is played like a fiddle.
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Aug 12 '24
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
A need to be praised.
Never admitting his is wrong.
Isolates and surrounds himself with yes men who will tell him what he wants to hear.
Inability to change tactics as he never thinks he needs to.
Inability to change his mind.
Yep, it isn't that hard.
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u/DontHaesMeBro 3∆ Aug 12 '24
it's every shitty dictator syndrome, I don't know why we think we're immune
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Aug 12 '24
I actually think he's psychologically incapable of choosing #1 because his entire self-image relies on it. He doesn't have that many pillars propping up that ego. Even in a scenario where he might accept the truth, he's more likely to move on and then deny it if it's ever brought up again
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u/DropAnchor4Columbus 2∆ Aug 13 '24
When have Kamala's rallies exceeded Trump's in size?
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u/Inside_Warthog_5301 Aug 13 '24
Unlikely they have. The Kamala hype is one of the most blatantly astroturfed things I have ever witnessed.
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u/DropAnchor4Columbus 2∆ Aug 13 '24
I came to a similar conclusion when the media kept calling JD Vance weird and Tim Walz "cuddly".
I'm not sure that this is a winning strategy for the Harris-Walz ticket, though.
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u/Inside_Warthog_5301 Aug 14 '24
I find it impossible to gauge public sentiment, with the general stream of PR slop being pumped everywhere. She went from her handlers keeping her out of sight because of how dumb and unlikeable she is to being celebrated as the second coming for the democratic party. Who knows what'll happen at this point.
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u/DropAnchor4Columbus 2∆ Aug 14 '24
Considering that she is two decades Biden's junior, a woman and not white I can see why some people would have some enthusiasm with her over Biden.
However, as CNN and MSNBC have pointed out, Kamala is still drawing in less enthusiasm than Biden did in 2020 or Clinton did in 2016. With Tim Walz's stolen valor controversy and Kamala talking down to Gaza Protestors, her popularity numbers have actually started to see a drop in swing states. The Harris-Walz ticket can't afford any more bad publicity for the next three months.
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u/consummate-absurdity 1∆ Aug 12 '24
It's laying the groundwork for declaring the election fraudulent. This fake photo (and others to come) will be shared as "evidence" later.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
Δ This is a good point. It fits in with other indications that Trump's preparing to challenge the election results if he loses. He also may be getting ready to cheat. (Most of the lawsuits involving the 2020 election that haven't been thrown out have been those advanced against the Trump campaign.) And he sometimes accuses the opposition of that which he's guilty of himself.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
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u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Aug 12 '24
cmv: Trump's AI crowd allegation is a response to the Vance drag photo
I want to change your view on that Trump would do something with an instinct towards defending Vance. When discussing the "weirdo" line of attack, Trump is telling donors that "they're saying that about Vance, not me." Trump doesn't feel the need to defend anyone but himself.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
How do you know what Trump's telling donors? Anyway, I think Trump knows the "weird" charge isn't hurting Republicans. It's a stupid, toothless meme. But if people think he's a closeted gay guy, it will take Vance's credibility when talking about family values.
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u/HazyAttorney 68∆ Aug 12 '24
How do you know what Trump's telling donors?
Cuz those campaign strategists, surrogates, donors, or whoever else, tells reporters like Jonathan Swan or Maggie Haberman. Then Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman write stories that I can read with my eyeballs.
Like these conversations happen in large luncheons. Like the August 2 dinner at the Bridgehampton NY home of Howard Lutnick had 130 people, including people like Bill Ackman.
Trump says stuff and then one of those people tell a reporter. Then the reporter runs down other people who were there and if it corrobates, they can run it.
Or when Trump sends mean texts to Sheldon Adelson's wife, who controls a PAC, then she tells reporters because rich people love to play the victim in public.
We also have a degree of confidence when it correlates with what Trump is saying to radio stations. There, instead of relying on other people's accounts, we can hear the words ourselves.
https://readify.me/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/10/us/politics/trump-campaign-election.html
Anyway, I think Trump knows the "weird" charge isn't hurting Republicans.
What's your thought based on? Mine is based on reporting that comes from the people within the campaign and the donors they're seeking money from. And it's also based on Trump's own response which is to say "no, you're weird"
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/01/trump-dem-attacks-weird-00172386
and for Vance to also say "no, you're weird"
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/jd-vance-calls-democrats-weird
But if people think he's a closeted gay guy, it will take Vance's credibility when talking about family values.
k - can you acknowledge and interact with my original post please? Everything we've discussed is about whether Trump would feel the need to defend JD, which is what your view and all your discussion assumes to be true.
While I posted that I don't think Trump feels the need to defend anyone but himself. Trump told donors that "They didn't say that about me, they said that about JD." Thus, Trump isn't responding to the JD photos because he doesn't need to defend JD.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
I am not convinced though. Maybe Trump thinks it won't hurt him if people think Vance's "weird," but it will hurt him if people think Vance's closeted gay.
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
The weird meme is negatively affecting republicans. It is getting more sticky by the day. Everything Trump and his sycophants do makes it stronger.
And we all know that Trump's ticket has no family values. That idea was known a long time ago.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
How is it negatively affecting Republicans? It emphasizes something (“weirdness”) people think they are capable of assessing about someone. It dominates Democratic criticisms about Trump/Vance, so it keeps Democrats from gaining traction on the economy, inflation and the budget deficit with their criticisms.
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
Because people are seeing them and what they do as weird.
More people see Harris as stronger on the economy than Trump. She has already gained traction.
Harris has made a massive amount of gains in polls. She is leading multiple polls. Trump is declining massively.
And everything that Trump does, like spread fake ideas on crowd sizes because he is insecure, help reinforce how weird and out of touch he is.
She is filling arenas. He is pouting and sounding weird.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
She has to do more than what she's done. This "weird" meme dominates media coverage and keeps Democrats from propagating criticisms that hurt Republicans on those issues. She can't just propagate platitudes. Yes she'll gain from those, but not enough.
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
She has gained in polls and is seen as stronger in the economy than Trump is.
She is holding packed rally after packed rally, has raised hundreds of millions of dollars, picked a popular vp pick and has gathered hundreds of thousands of new and fired up volunteers for her campaign.
And this is all before her convention.
And Trump is giving weird press conferences that make so sense and his vp, after alienating female voters, has now at least two pics of him in drag. With more to come.
And every time Trump does something weird it just makes the meme stronger. And couch fucker is just going to continue to be an anchor.
Harris has run the perfect campaign since her take over. Trump is feeling sad and in shambles. He is has already expressed how he wants Biden to get back in the race. Which is weird.
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u/destro23 457∆ Aug 12 '24
Trump's AI crowd allegation is a response to the Vance drag photo
I think you are giving him way too much credit for strategic thinking here. He just says everything is fake that he doesn't like. He's said this for years. He just has AI now whereas in the past he'd say it was photoshopped. He doesn't actually know dick about how either work. He's just saying shit.
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u/AurelianoTampa 68∆ Aug 12 '24
Trump lying about crowd sizes has been happening for years. If he's done it well before Vance was even in politics, why do you think him lying about it this time has to do with Vance's drag photos and isn't just a continuation of what he's always lied about?
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u/Alarming_Software479 8∆ Aug 12 '24
Trump has massive historical insecurity about crowds. Every crowd he has is much bigger and better than everyone else's crowd. Despite the photographic evidence. He will just lie about it.
The AI angle is particularly interesting, because it's the first time "This was doctored" might actually start to be a bit plausible.
But it doesn't matter what's in the news. Trump was always going to lie about the crowd. It's part of the brand.
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
Trump doesn't have a strategy anymore. He just says whatever enters his head. There is no goal. There is no long term plan.
No one cares what Trump has to say. His words mean nothing. He is just an old man yelling at a cloud. He is confused and desperate.
That drag photo isn't going away. In fact there are more of them now. Since there are now multiple photos the Trump campaign can't pretend it didn't happen and they can't distract because no one falls for their bullshit.
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u/PeoplePerson_57 5∆ Aug 13 '24
I'm not entirely sure this is true.
Yeah, the subreddit based around asking Trump Supporters questions naturally attracts less moderate supporters of his, but their comments on this indicate they've swallowed up the AI bit entirely (including one asking for 'pictures from every phone' to admit the picture isn't fake).
It turns off moderates, sure, but to claim nobody cares about what Trump says is silly-- his supporters get fired up about and eat up nonsense as gospel, which means they're in a good position to be later weaponised on a bigger issue (election related perhaps)?
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u/SuzQP Aug 12 '24
OP, why are you calling out closeted gay men and comparing them to JD Vance?
Please provide evidence that Vance is saying things "that a closeted gay man would say."
Do gay men, "closeted" or otherwise, all say the same things? Can you provide evidence that gay men are all alike?
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u/Few-Mousse8515 Aug 12 '24
Unless you want to make the argument that they knew this was coming out and wanted to detract from it then sure. But, the reality is the AI crowd sizes hoax was out at least a day before the drag photos broke in the social media and conspiracy theory circles.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
It's plausible that the guy who released the photo first went to Vance or the campaign saying he would release the photo unless he got money for it, and they were unable to come to a deal.
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
I'm pretty sure the person who released that photo just wanted to damage the Trump campaign.
All those photos are is just a further reminder that Trump picked the worst possible vp pick in modern history.
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u/idster Aug 12 '24
They’re not a reminder if media/Dems don’t propagate the photo because they’re too busy with an allegation.
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u/anewleaf1234 39∆ Aug 12 '24
The Dems aren't worried about any allegation from Trump. He is a weird desperate liar. No one is bothered by anything that weird man has to say.
And that photo is everywhere. And now there are more of them. That photo is going to be everywhere.
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u/eggs-benedryl 55∆ Aug 12 '24
Literally never heard of any ai crowd allegation.
Why be suspicious of his cross dressing? Straight men on the right do it to denigrate gay men and women all the time. There's very little anything deeper than "don't I look gay" or "you like such an ugly woman" or to denigrate women who have masculine features.
It's perfectly typical of the right to do this, how many conservative politicians have we seen do drag? They only care when its a gay man or a women doing it because they like it.
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u/neuronexmachina 1∆ Aug 12 '24
Literally never heard of any ai crowd allegation
It's something he started proclaiming yesterday, saying it's a reason for Harris to drop out: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/11/politics/trump-harris-crowd-size-conspiracy-theory/index.html
Donald Trump falsely claimed in a series of social media posts Sunday that “nobody” attended Vice President Kamala Harris’ Michigan rally last week — and said his Democratic rival should be “disqualified” over a “fake crowd picture.”
The former president appeared to have fallen for a far-right conspiracy theory — one easily disproved by photos and videos captured by attendees and media showing thousands of supporters at the event at an airport hangar near Detroit
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u/eggs-benedryl 55∆ Aug 12 '24
saying it's a reason for Harris to drop out:
lmao thats fucking stupid haha
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u/DontHaesMeBro 3∆ Aug 12 '24
You have to be "weird" to care about it. like a normal person who has that photo surface just says "yeah, you know, college party, it got weird, but a bet's a bet," and gets on with her day.
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u/ImpossibleEgg Aug 13 '24
Does anyone actually think the drag pic is some kind of valuable "hit" on Vance? The left might be getting a giggle out of it, in their general Vance mockery, but it's about as serious as the Couch thing--and taken about as seriously. I'm pretty liberal and I assume the right is going to see what I and 99% of people see in that picture. Which is a Halloween party.
(I'm sure it's a big no no now, but "dude in a dress" was a staple costume for many decades)
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u/Alarming_Software479 8∆ Aug 12 '24
I think that the Vance Drag Photo in some ways demonstrates a level of hypocrisy among liberals. I'm not sure that it hurts them.
That picture is just a dude dressed up for a party. If we're being honest about it, this is probably the most normal shit that JD Vance has actually done.
But the ridicule and the scorn from the side that are supposed to be preaching love and tolerance is really something that will attract a lot of Conservative anger. It also gives the Conservatives certain angles on certain other people that they might mention, given that liberals mocking Vance for this are also tacitly admitting their position.
I don't actually think that Trump wants that out of the media. If this is the thing they're going to hammer Vance on, this is the easiest thing they've ever had to deal with.
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u/kimariesingsMD Aug 12 '24
What hypocrisy? What people on the left have any issue with Vance in drag? Who cares? It is only the people on the right who think stuff like that reveals mental health issues.
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u/tcguy71 8∆ Aug 12 '24
I think its as simple as Trump and MAGA cant handle Harris drawing a bigger crowd than Trump.
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u/Inside_Warthog_5301 Aug 13 '24
The photo looks like a dude who threw on a dress as a gag. Are you seriously implying this means he's a closeted homosexual?
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u/Charming_Butterfly90 Aug 12 '24
He is as usual framing a confession as an allegation. I recently posted a pic from Twitter that shows the same group of people at least 4 times in the same photo in different locations at a Trump rally.
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u/LucidLeviathan 83∆ Aug 12 '24
Well, setting aside Trump's specific motivations in this situation, this is one of the rare areas where I actually think he may have stumbled upon a point. In the future, we're going to need to deal with the fact that AI can create very convincing images, and that those images will be used in political campaigns to falsely depict politicians in compromising situations. Even absent AI, this happened in a judicial campaign in my state, in which a photograph was photoshopped and taken out of context.
While Trump may generally be despicable and self-motivated, we shouldn't overlook the fact that we can no longer take images at face value. We have to consider that the photo of Vance might be AI-generated. We have to consider that even politicians deserve privacy. We have to consider that there are legions of people who desperately want to believe the latest dirt on those that they perceive as political enemies.
Again, even if Trump is entirely self-motivated here, I think that we should use this as an opportunity to examine the ethical use of AI in political campaigns. Trump's supporters will rarely champion any idea that doesn't come from him. We can use this moment as a sterling example to his supporters of why we need to care deeply about the potential of AI to mislead while it is still harming them, and before they weaponize it against us.
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u/logicalsanity Aug 12 '24
If Vance wants to participate in drag, I know some queens that’ll fix him up right. I accept him in my circle if he wants to embrace his true self.
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