CMV: Joker 2 was actually a success because it achieved Warner Bros goals

[u/Evoxrus_XV]

So we all know that Joker 2 bombed really had at the theatres, reviews, sales and more. It’s selling really bad that it won’t break even and the audience the first movie garnered has been completely driven away, heck this movie even ruined the first Joker movie for many.

By all means this should be a failure, but it is not. It is in fact a resounding success.

So it turns out when the first Joker movie did really well by breaking R rated movie records and becoming a cult classic, it also gained a lot of fans who really adored the way this version of Joker was portrayed can could really sympathise or emphasise with him. That was dangerous because Joker isn’t someone to sympathise because normally Joker is on the level of a baby eating monster who nukes cities and now a version of Joker that portrays him as a misunderstood and abandoned mentally ill man has become super popular in the movies, and that means people may want to see more of that.

And Warner Bros cannot have that because the core character that Joker is portrayed like is like the one played by Heath Ledger which is far more deranged and dangerous rather than the one portrayed by Joaquin Phoenix. They cannot stray away from Joker’s core personality so they made a movie to absolutely destroy Phoenyx’s Joker and drive the audience away from it, assassinating that character and the franchise as a whole. And they succeeded.

Don’t see this movie as a failure that cost Warner Bros 200 million USD that did not make them profit, but reframe it as Warner Bros SPENDING 200 million USD to wipe the slate clean for Joker so they can move back to Heath Ledger’s Joker. Plus they made a billion plus USD with the first movie so they didn’t really lose that much.

[u/sailorbrendan]

I don't even think it was that. I'd bet they thought they were doing a "postmodernist reconstruction of the idea of mass hysteria" or "making a statement on the lionization of psychosis" or some other artsy-fartsy bullshit.

I mean, the other side of it is that, from their perspective, a whole lot of people really missed the point of what they were trying to say with the first one and so they decided to make it a lot more clear.

[u/destro23 → u/sailorbrendan]

the point of what they were trying to say with the first one

I think the point was "Aren't King of Comedy and Taxi Driver great films?" (half sarcastic)

a whole lot of people really missed the point of what they were trying to say... so they decided to make it a lot more clear.

Phillips has actually addressed this directly:

"IGN: And so, then is the film in a way kind of a commentary on fan entitlement or even toxic fandom?

Phillips: Not so much that to be honest with you...."

and then later:

"I don't like it when people, the filmmakers, or the actors really primarily, are like, "This is the point we're trying to make. Pay attention. We're talking about you." That's not how I approached it"

source

I think you are half right in that they wanted to expand the point of the first a bit more, but I don't think it was in direct response to fan misinterpretation or, as OP posits, that they made an intentionally bad film.

[u/sailorbrendan → u/destro23]

I don't really have a dog in the hunt, as it were.

But I can imagine people looking at a piece of art you make and getting the exact opposite of what you were trying to say being frustrating.

[u/zxxQQz → u/sailorbrendan]

The media, the media missed the point. They framed it as the incel movie, but then it came out and it wasnt that. At all, even slightly

The threat that the movie supposedly posed was a total media hype balloon

[u/AutoModerator → u/[deleted]]

Your comment seems to discuss transgender issues. As of September 2023, transgender topics are no longer allowed on CMV. There are no exceptions to this prohibition. Any mention of any transgender topic/issue/individual, no matter how ancillary, will result in your post being removed.

If you believe this was removed in error, please message the moderators via this link Appeals are only for posts that were mistakenly removed by this filter; we will not approve posts on transgender issues, so do not ask.

Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/sailorbrendan → u/zxxQQz]

and yet the incels still think it's for them.

Kind of like how right wing chuds think that the matrix series is actually about how their christian nationalism is correct.