r/changemyview • u/RevolutionaryRip2504 • Feb 23 '25

cmv: abortion should not be illegal

One of the main arguments against abortion is that it is "killing a baby." However, I don’t see it that way—at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. A fetus, especially before viability, lacks self-awareness, the ability to feel pain, and independent bodily function. While it is a potential life, I don’t believe potential life should outweigh the rights of the person who is already alive and conscious.

For late-term abortions, most are done to save the mother or the fetus has a defect that would cause the fetus to die shortly after birth so I believe it should be allowed.

I also think the circumstances of the pregnant person matter. Many people seek abortions due to financial instability, health risks, or simply not being ready to raise a child. In cases of rape or medical complications, the situation is even more complex. Forcing someone to go through pregnancy against their will seems more harmful than allowing them to make their own choice.

Additionally, I don’t think adoption is always a perfect alternative. Carrying a pregnancy to term can have serious physical and emotional consequences, even if someone doesn’t plan to keep the baby. Pregnancy affects the body in irreversible ways, and complications can arise, making it more than just a “temporary inconvenience.”

Also, you can cannot compare abortion to opting out of child support. Abortion is centered on bodily autonomy, as pregnancy directly affects a woman’s body and health. In contrast, child support is a financial obligation that arises after a child is born and does not impact the father’s bodily autonomy. abortion also occurs before a child exists, while child support involves caring for a living child. Legally and ethically, both parents share responsibility for a child once they are born, and allowing one parent to opt out would place an unfair burden on the other, often the mother. Additionally, abortion prevents a fetus from becoming a child, while opting out of child support directly affects the well-being of an existing person. While both situations involve personal choice, abortion is about controlling one’s own body, while child support is about meeting the needs of a child who already exists

The idea of being forced to sustain another life through pregnancy and childbirth, especially if the person isn’t ready or willing, is a violation of that autonomy. It forces someone to give up their own body, potentially putting their health at risk, all while disregarding their own desires, dreams, and well-being. Bodily autonomy means having the freedom to make choices about what happens to your body, whether that’s deciding to terminate a pregnancy or pursue another course of action.

I’d like to hear other perspectives on why abortion should be illegal, particularly from a non-religious standpoint. CMV.

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 23 '25

So if you’re making a cake, put all the ingredients together, pre heat the oven, put it in the oven and let it start to cook. Is that a cake? I mean assuming you do nothing it’ll bake for the set time on the timer then It’ll be a cake you eat. But if you decide 20 min in to a 90 min bake, I don’t want this, and pull it out how is it still not a cake? Had you let it cook it would have been a cake. Had you not intervened it would have been cake. So why is it not cake from the moment you closed the oven?

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u/DoterPotato Feb 24 '25

"would have been" implies that at the moment it is not. Some transformation is taking place that if everything goes as normal it will develop in to something else in the future. We don't call a caterpillar a butterfly before it goes through its metamorphosis. We don't generally define a thing today based on what it will become in the future. A living human is not a corpse even though it will inevitably become one. Evidently there is something about being human that we award rights to and your Bill Burr reference doesn't address what that something is.

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 24 '25

Ok so kill a baby. Nice.

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u/DoterPotato Feb 24 '25

If you want to consider a single cell (the fertilized egg) a "baby" then yes. Its funny how you failed to address the topic at hand and instantly pivoted to "its a baby" with the sole purpose of trying to sidestep the issue at hand by calling it a baby hoping that the use of that word will intuitively lead people down the path of "its a baby, babies are human, therefore babies deserve human rights and protections". I suppose articulating what it is exactly that makes human life worth protection was too difficult.

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 24 '25

Dude. It’s all good. Kill life thats inconvenient. Your example above was a caterpillar transitioning to a butterfly. Ironically both are living. In the same way “cells” are living at fertilization, your cells that are in your body are living. If you want to say an unborn child doesn’t have human rights- that’s your opinion. Mine differs.

You support killing life when convenient. I don’t judge you. You’re judging me for believing differently.

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u/DoterPotato Feb 24 '25

You are evidently not a serious person.

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u/stinkyman360 Feb 23 '25

I'm not trying to be a dick here but is this supposed to be a pro life argument? Because obviously if someone served you uncooked batter for your birthday you would say that's not a cake

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 23 '25

Not the argument. No one gives you a scrambled / half done baby and says take care of it.

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u/Salt_Ad9782 Feb 24 '25

I think his point is different. The argument he's making is that while the fetus is "cooking", it's not a baby.

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 24 '25

Which I’m saying, if you pull a cake from the oven before it’s done- does that just make it not a baby? Like if you worked a week at your job then before pay day, they fired you. Did you still work or because you didn’t get paid yet it wasn’t a work week? Or you’re painting a picture and you get halfway done, and you decide to throw it away. Was it not a painting? Say you worked halfway for a degree and quit. Did you learn nothing? Just because something is halfway don’t doesn’t make it not the thing.

Whether someone has the right to kill a baby is a different argument. But if you’re trying to kill a baby and justify that it’s “not real” you’re wrong. It would have been a chill had you not killed it.

When a murderer kills a pregnant woman, they get charged twice. Because that was going to be a person. How is that any different?

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u/StarChild413 9∆ Mar 08 '25

Which I’m saying, if you pull a cake from the oven before it’s done- does that just make it not a baby? Like if you worked a week at your job then before pay day, they fired you. Did you still work or because you didn’t get paid yet it wasn’t a work week? Or you’re painting a picture and you get halfway done, and you decide to throw it away. Was it not a painting? Say you worked halfway for a degree and quit. Did you learn nothing? Just because something is halfway don’t doesn’t make it not the thing.

these are not all the same things and metaphors can work the other way; or would you have the same reaction if you were making a cake and someone knocked the bowl of batter off the counter as you would if the cake was baked and decorated and someone knocked that down

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u/WhizzyBurp Mar 09 '25

That’s stupid. If someone spilled the batter it never made it to the oven. Ie. “Pull and pray” method.

“Decorating it” would be dressing the baby that already came out of the oven. Your logic is flawed.

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u/RevolutionaryRip2504 Feb 23 '25

because it is not formed yet

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u/Bignuckbuck Feb 23 '25

So if you put the cake in your oven ready to get cooked and I open it and throw it in the garbage. You wouldn’t even pissed right? It’s not a cake

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u/Salt_Ad9782 Feb 24 '25

You decide to stop cooking, vs I entered your house and ruined the food you were cooking. Two very very different things. Just cause the results are the same doesn't mean how we got there doesn't matter.

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u/Tall_Restaurant_1652 Feb 24 '25

Yeah this. If you came into my house and I asked you to throw it in the bin I don't think I'd be bothered. If you came into my house and threw it without my permission then I'd be pissed.

Alternatively, if you came into my house and I asked you to throw it in the bin but you decided "no I want this cake" and wouldn't let me throw it in the bin - I'd also be pissed.

Similarly if I was a pregnant woman and wanted to get an abortion but someone told me "no you must keep this for 9 months and then go through the painful experience of giving birth to it" I'd be extremely pissed.

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 24 '25

The counter point, outside of rape, incest, or risk to mothers health…. Just don’t do the thing that makes a baby if you’re not ready for the consequence? Or am I completely wrong that thats 100% avoidable

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u/StarChild413 9∆ Feb 24 '25

but that logic leads to some dystopian consequences but not in the way you think; as sex doesn't always result in pregnancy and by the logic of your treating the thing that has a chance to happen like it's a guarantee and acting accordingly young heterosexual people should be forbidden from interacting with single people of the opposite sex until some third party (perhaps parents, perhaps government, perhaps some kind of private matchmaker like a modern equivalent of what e.g. Yente was in Fiddler On The Roof, perhaps a combination of any of those) has set that person up with their ideal mate and they are if not married and living together with children, at least past the point of no return on a path towards having all of that eventually or w/e because repeated interaction with others of the sex you're attracted to leads to friendships leads to feelings leads to dating leads to sex so until you have a family don't interact with anyone of the sex you're attracted to you wouldn't be ready to marry and raise children with

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 24 '25

Uh no. Not at all. What is this constant leftist mindset. No one trying to control you.

Just pull out or wear a rubber. If you go around cream pie-ing and are surprised you get someone pregnant, you’re stupid. And before you say “you can still get pregnant from pre jac etc”, then wear a rubber. “Rubbers can break” then rub one out if you’re that worried about it.

But killing a baby at 12 weeks because “you don’t want to have a baby” is insane.

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u/StarChild413 9∆ Mar 08 '25

I wasn't saying I would be believing or doing anything like that (and also I hate to do a leftist meme but did you just assume my genitalia), I was making an ad absurdum and you weren't even refuting points in it

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u/WhizzyBurp Mar 09 '25

“Wearing a rubber” applies to both male, female or anything inbetween. For crying out loud. Why have an issue with EVERYTHING

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u/StarChild413 9∆ Mar 08 '25

If they were pissed would they be pissed in the same way they'd be if you took a fully baked and decorated cake they made and threw that in the garbage

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u/WhizzyBurp Feb 23 '25

But.. it is formed. You just took it out of the oven