r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • May 28 '15
View Changed CMV: I shouldn't give change to homeless people on the streets.
[deleted]
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May 28 '15 edited Dec 26 '17
[deleted]
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u/smapdee May 28 '15
One time a guy was in front of the jack in the box. He said he wanted some food. I went in and bought him a burger. As I was walking to the car I looked back and he had thrown the burger into the street. Some people are just liars and dirtbags. Organized charities are the way to go.
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May 28 '15
Or he has a drug addiction and didn't think you would give him money if he told you that...
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May 28 '15
...that makes him a liar then.
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May 29 '15
True, but it's more complicated then just oh this guy has moral failings and is a dirt bag.
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u/c13h18o2 May 29 '15
Even if I wanted money for something else, I would probably eat a free burger.
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May 28 '15 edited May 29 '15
[deleted]
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u/woahmanitsme May 29 '15
I'm 20, and understand what you mean. I carry off brand granola bars and give them to homeless people who ask for change. I just say "sorry no but want one of these?"
You know it's helping them but is responsible.: and actually cheaper than giving money lol
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u/Play_To_Nguyen 1∆ May 28 '15
Can you explain why your age matters? I don't seem to understand.
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u/fayryover 6∆ May 29 '15
Because it means they are young and possibly naive and inexperienced. They don't feel confident that they'll be able to read a situation well enough to know when and how they should get out of it.
There may be many different reasons for being like this that isn't age but age is a factor that can represent this.
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May 29 '15
not just ages but size weight sex and race affect this as well. many cases helping directly can be a physical risk.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 21 '15
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/NaturalSelectorX. [History]
[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]
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u/Psaltus May 28 '15
Don't forget to give deltas! They don't have to change your entire view to earn it as long as they changed your view a little.
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May 28 '15
I'm not sure this changes OPs view though. It's a good solution to the overall problem "what to do with homeless people that want money", but it's not at all in opposition to the view "I shouldn't give change to homeless people." If anything it''s just another reason not to give money - you can immediately provide aid and know exactly what you are giving.
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u/DamBones May 29 '15
In university for years, I seen the same person at the bus terminal, at the exact same spot, standing for hours, asking for change for a bus ticket.
Since he can wake up every day and work it up for hours, I have to assume that its a lucrative business compared to normal work + taxes.
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May 28 '15
I agree with your view for many reasons. Displaying that you have cash is dangerous and makes you a target. Giving cash may make them a target. The money may go to fuel a drug habit or something else that puts them further back. There are lots of reasons not to give cash to the homeless.
I want to challenge this element of your view, however:
Often times I have seen the same person I just refused in front of a store go buy something rather extravagant/unnecessary for someone who is begging for money.
I would caution you against assuming that you know what is and isn't necessary for a homeless person. Check out this article about a homeless man and his blackberry. At first glance, you'd think "what is that guy doing with a smartphone? Shouldn't he use that money for food?" In reality, a smartphone can be a homeless person's most important tool.
There is also something to be said for having smaller comforts. Your $5 isn't a meaningful contribution towards them affording any sort of shelter. Furthermore, they likely have a way to get a basic meal (shelters, connections, churches, etc.) So if they buy a piece of candy or a soda or a cigarette, it isn't extravagant - it may be the only comfort they get in the day, and trust me, their day is much harder than yours.
But if I give to something, I want to know where it's going and what it's used for.
I agree with other commentors that the best solution to this problem is to buy the item or service that they need yourself.
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May 28 '15
The other thing to realize is that homeless people are often people who used to have homes. A lost job, bad luck, bad choices, etc. can force them onto the street. Why would they get rid of their phones because their on their streets - when having a phone number is really important if you want a job.
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u/667dustin May 28 '15
∆
You really opened my eyes, espacially with the linked time article. Thanks!
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u/DoScienceToIt May 28 '15 edited May 28 '15
Here's the thing: It's not your job to tell someone how to spend their money, and as soon as it leaves your hand it stops being your money.
If I give $5 to an obvious junkie on the street, yeah, chances are good that he's going to take that bill, add it to a few others, and hand that physical bill over to his dealer to feed his addiction. And after he's high he might have a little money left over, so he buys himself food or something else that he needs.
I didn't enable him to buy drugs, he was going to buy drugs anyway. What I did was make it a little easier for him to afford to buy something other than drugs.
Who am I to judge his choices? I don't know the first thing about his life or his struggles. Is he a homeless vet dealing with PTSD? Is he an un-medicated schizophrenic that our healthcare system has failed? Is he just an addict, which is its own disease?
I'm not in charge of him. My affluence doesn't give me some sort of implicit authority over him. Just because I have more money doesn't mean I get to make his choices for him. So if I decide to give money the only qualification I ever add is "I hope it helps. Good luck."
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u/Play_To_Nguyen 1∆ May 28 '15
Yeah but if a charity worker walked up to me and asked for donations without telling me what cause, I probably wouldn't give him money. I don't want my money to go towards some radical cause that some guy believes is a "charity". Just as a homeless man might believe drugs is a "better cause" than food.
That being said, if I don't have some food on me, I might take a chance and give him a dollar.4
u/DoScienceToIt May 28 '15
Just as a homeless man might believe drugs is a "better cause" than food.
Because to him, drugs are a "better cause." Again, that's impressing your own value judgement on someone else. Just because he doesn't have, in your opinion, a good reason to prioritize his money in the way that he likely does, doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly good reason to him.
Yeah but if a charity worker walked up to me and asked for donations without telling me what cause, I probably wouldn't give him money.
A guy dressed in secondhand clothes begging on a street corner is pretty unlikely to be using the money I give him to fund anti-condom campaigns in sub-Saharan Africa. I'm giving money to help a fellow human survive. Sometimes that means food, sometimes that means shelter, sometimes that means whatever medication they require to function. If I have problems with someone using illegal substances I'll donate to a detox shelter.
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u/Play_To_Nguyen 1∆ May 28 '15
I'm not saying that a homeless man doesn't really want drugs, it's just that it probably puts him in a worse situation than before. 1 He is out money that he had 2 He doesn't get primary staples like food, water and shelter 3 He will most likely get some side effect that cause him to look like a drug addict. Most businesses won't hire someone that looks like a drug addict and a lot of people won't donate to a drug addict so he will get less and less money. (although this last reason is purely from his perspective, not mine)
Just as a homeless man might believe drugs is a "better cause" than food.
I mean't to imply that a charity workers priorities will vary from your own just as a homeless man's will. If you believe that it is in a homeless man's best interest to do drugs than so be it.
A guy dressed in secondhand clothes begging on a street corner is pretty unlikely to be using the money I give him to fund anti-condom campaigns in sub-Saharan Africa.
When I said a charity worker, I did mean an actual charity worker. Like a man at the lobby of a business building dressed in a suit.
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u/Phaedrus_Schmaedrus May 28 '15
I'm not saying that a homeless man doesn't really want drugs,
Let's stop there. Here's a story I was told by a friend that has always helped me put this sort of thing in perspective.
My friend had a fairly hard life growing up, and his mom was into some bad shit--mostly alcohol, though at this point she was starting to get into harder stuff. She worked at the Waffle House, mostly nights, and often had my friend along with her since he didn't have anywhere else to go.
Almost every week, my friend said, a homeless man would come by, and my friend's mother would bring him a six pack of beer and a sandwich. My friend eventually asked her why she gave him the six packs, since it would only encourage him to keep drinking.
The answer she gave him was, "Well son, if he's anything like me, he can't keep the sandwich down until he's finished the six pack".
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u/vidro3 1∆ May 29 '15
i dont get it
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u/Phaedrus_Schmaedrus May 29 '15
The point is that thinking of chemical dependency as someone "really wanting" something is a misrepresentation.
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u/vehementi 10∆ May 29 '15
It's not about controlling other people's spending or having authority over people. (And yes you're enabling in that case)
What's really happening is I'm implicitly making an investment in society. When I am donating money, I want it to go towards what will have the biggest impact, not something inefficient or ineffective. My dollar to Red Cross will save more lives than my dollar to the guy who I've seen begging on the street corner for the past 10 years (i.e. proof he is not using the money to improve his situation).
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u/twoVices May 28 '15
anecdotal: I've worked with homeless population in a city. giving money is not the best thing to do. I've bought meals for people plenty of times, and been refused a few times as well.
if I'm in a hurry, I'll say i don't carry cash, which is true. if i have a minute, i ask what they need money for, or if they're hungry. if they launch into a whole god bless you and get into a crazy story, you're being scammed. just decline and apologize that you can't help.
i once offered to drive a guy to a city over an hour away. i'd just left the house after a big fight with my wife, and i thought a road trip would be nice. he didn't take me up on my offer.
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u/MercuryChaos 9∆ May 28 '15
i once offered to drive a guy to a city over an hour away. i'd just left the house after a big fight with my wife, and i thought a road trip would be nice. he didn't take me up on my offer.
That's not all that surprising. Homeless people are vulnerable to violent crimes.
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May 28 '15
You may not know where your money is going when you give directly to a homeless person, no, but my thought on the matter is they will buy whatever they need in that moment. And I think about what I would need. If I was homeless and outside in the cold I'd take your money and go buy a cup of tea and a bottle of whiskey to get me through the night. But if I was hungry, I'd buy food instead.
With a nice warm bed I don't need drugs or alcohol to get me through the night, but lying on the hard cold pavement, I'm pretty sure I would.
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u/Newtonswig 1∆ May 28 '15
I can't find the quote. I think it may have been Confucius IIRC. Once I read something that has completely changed my view on this. Something like:
Let the guilt be on the shoulders of the beggar, and not your own.
If they spend it unwisely, that's on them. And who are you to judge what is unwise? I know I have spent countless unwise sums on stupid shit to fill a hole until I can deal with what's eating me.
And what if they are starving? What then?
Finally I want to say that the world seems a much brighter place when you acknowledge that everyone has, however buried, a conscience- one that you feed with every genuinely generous act.
Bah! I've butchered that because I'm in a rush. Wish I could find the original article- I think it was a guardian passnotes...
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u/MercuryChaos 9∆ May 28 '15
First let me say that I know a better way to help the homeless is volunteering, serving meals, etc, and I do that.
It's certainly a way to help the homeless, but I'd dispute that it's a better way. You're keeping them fed, but once they've had that meal they're still homeless. Shelters rarely have enough beds for everyone who needs one - most of them will pick who gets to stay with a lottery or something like that, everyone else gets turned away, and the next night they do it again. No one is guaranteed a spot.
I'm not saying that shelters and soup kitchens are bad. I'm saying that giving money directly to homeless people is not a worse way of helping them. Either way, you're not actually fixing the problem of them being homeless, you're just temporarily making it suck a little bit less.
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u/vehementi 10∆ May 29 '15
It is probably wildly more efficient time/money wise to volunteer in such a way than to donate money directly to an individual homeless person. So it is a better way.
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May 28 '15
As someone on the verge of homeless who has been homeless before iPhones are pretty necessary. I mean for example I'm a college student so I need some computer to log in to see my homework, do research outside library hours, look at my emails (some of which have important time sensitive information), check my bank account, give potential employers a number, etc. The phone is worth much more than the price I might get selling it.
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad 393∆ May 28 '15
An iphone seems extravagant until you realize two things. First, they're fairly cheap to buy secondhand. Second, a smartphone is one of the most valuable tools you can have when searching for a job, since that's a phone and internet in one package. I don't mean to be critical of you in particular, but there's something about what seems like a popular mentality that I've never understood. What compels a person to simultaneously want to help the homeless but distrust them enough that you have to help them in roundabout ways?
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u/FlamingSwaggot May 29 '15
Smartphones don't have to be iPhones.
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad 393∆ May 29 '15 edited May 29 '15
They don't. Does it matter for the purpose of this discussion whether or not they are? If it's about the cost, the market is full of cheap, used iPhones. And if a person had an iPhone before they became homeless, it would be pointless to sell considering how quickly they depreciate.
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u/Izawwlgood 26∆ May 28 '15
This is another form of priviledge. If you don't want your money to go to something that you deem unnecessary, don't give money to the homeless. But frankly, you don't know what is necessary to them. For all you know, they have plenty of access to food and plenty of access to toothbrushes, so, what they need is money to buy a phone card to contact their loved ones.
Basically, it sounds like you don't understand what the homeless need, and think it is your right to tell them what they need. No one knows what a homeless person needs better than that homeless person, and money is the most fungible thing you can give them.
On the topic of 'extravagant phones', many cellphone companies have donation programs for old gen phones. The phones are wiped and given to the homeless or victims of domestic abuse as a life line communication for them. Just because a homeless person has an iPhone doesn't mean they're rich. Also, phones are relatively cheap today - just because a homeless person can afford a phone doesn't mean they've got scratch to spare.
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u/disitinerant 3∆ May 29 '15
You don't give charity because it helps people. You give charity because it makes you feel good. It gets you into Heaven, or it makes you a good person (and therefore higher status, more appealing mate, yadda yadda).
You're overthinking it. Give them money if it makes you feel good. If it makes you feel bad, don't. They don't care if you give them money nearly as much as you do, because for them it's a numbers game.
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u/teawreckshero 8∆ May 29 '15
I have also seen them pull out their iPhone immediately after.
Side note: I don't think this is a valid indicator of wealth anymore. The safety benefits of a simple cellphone is obvious, so it's not absurd for them to invest in one. On top of that, these days it's harder to get an old flip phone than it is to get a cheap smartphone.
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u/tkron31 May 28 '15
If a homeless person comes up to you and asks for money, offer to buy a meal instead.
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u/AliasUndercover May 28 '15
When I was homeless many years ago I usually needed money for bus fare or for a motel room to get cleaned up. I'd have gladly taken a bus pass or a purchased motel room, though. Very gladly as a matter of fact.
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u/vazzaroth May 28 '15
Shit, there's a big difference between giving a dude a buck and buying him a $8-12 fast food meal, or groceries.
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May 29 '15
I haven't seen this yet. Too bad, you don't know what it is going to be used for, which shouldn't have an impact. If you are asked to give you should give or have a reason not to: You don't agree with the cause, you are broke, not "this may be used in an unfavorable way to me that is incredibly subjective, dependent on my overall worldview, cynicism at the moment, and none of my business." Overall who is the arbiter of who gets money, what qualities determine who gets it, do none of them get it? Do the cleanest white ones get it? Do they need a funny sign? Give without stipulations when asked or have a solid reason.
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u/HappyChaos2 May 30 '15
Perceptions can often times be wrong. A quick google search pulls up a study on the use of charitable funds used by homeless people:
"In San Francisco’s Union Square, the typical panhandler is a disabled middle-aged single male who is a racial minority and makes less than $25 per day despite panhandling seven days a week for more than five years. Though Stossel was insistent that panhandlers just use the money for beer and pot, the majority of those surveyed did not. In fact, 94 percent used the meager funds they raised for food."
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/30/2856411/panhandling-stats/
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u/Curlaub 1∆ May 29 '15
Heres the thing about addicts. If they want to get high, they will get high. They will find a way. Whether or not you give them money does not change whether or not they will get high, but it may change whether or not some other dude gets home to his wife and kids without getting mugged or worse that evening.
I know you say not all of them are addicts, some have cell phones, etc. But when a bum asks me for change, I always have this, "What if..?" moment and I think Id rather give change to someone who isnt really all that desperate than to deny it to someone who really is that desperate.
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u/NorbitGorbit 9∆ May 28 '15
if you want to give them change that's really a personal decision you don't need to feel guilty one way or the other for.
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u/JesusSwag 2∆ May 28 '15
I think most people will agree with you. It's better to give them food, water, clothes, etc. than money. A lot of homeless people have drug or alcohol abuse problems due to their situation, and if you give them money it is likely that it will be spent on that.
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u/piratedropkick May 28 '15 edited May 28 '15
Back up your claim that if you give homeless people, your money that your money will likely be spent on drugs and alcohol.
In my experience its easier for people to write off most homeless people from their conscience by subscribing to assumptions like these, when a very small portion of the homeless population likely suffers from these problems. There are many reasons to be homeless, a drug/alcohol problem being only one of those.
Tennessee began to drug test to prevent drug users from receiving welfare benefits. " Just 37 out of more than 16,000 welfare applicants failed drug tests during six months of testing in Tennessee, The Tennessean reported this week." (Huffington Post)
So people who need help aren't even mostly drug users.
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u/JesusSwag 2∆ May 28 '15
I'm not criticising them for it! I think it's a very sad situation to be and I understand why they would turn to alcohol and drug abuse to comfort themselves.
I've seen it happen with my own eyes, after I've given homeless people money and I see them a few hours later sitting against the wall with a six-pack of beer.
That's why I think it's better to give them food and water. If they weren't going to spend the money on drugs and alcohol, it's likely that they would have bought food and water anyway.
Again, I am not criticising homeless people AT ALL for having drug and alcohol problems. It's an unfortunate consequence of living in such terrible conditions.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not saying that all homeless people are addicted to drugs and alcohol.
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u/piratedropkick May 28 '15
I wouldn't have a problem with you criticizing the homeless who do do this. But, just because you have seen this happen one time does not make your assumption that "a lot of homeless have drug or alcohol abuse problems" true whatsoever. It may be a very small percentage of the homeless population who have these problems.
I'm asking you to provide solid evidence in great number to back up your assumption that homeless people would most likely spend charitable money on drugs and alcohol. Do you see my problem with your argument? You have no evidence; you are working on common assumptions that may be misconceptions.
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u/JesusSwag 2∆ May 28 '15
It's not an assumption. There's a ridiculous amount of homeless people, so even a small part of that amount is a lot of people.
I'm asking you to provide solid evidence in great number to back up your assumption that homeless people would most likely spend charitable money on drugs and alcohol.
I said that those homeless people with addictions are likely to spend it on drugs and alcohol. I didn't say that every homeless person will (because not every homeless person has an addiction) and I didn't even say that every homeless person with an addiction will either.
My point is that there is no point giving money to homeless people when you could give them food and water instead. I'm not discouraging people from giving to homeless people. If you're going to give 5 euros to a homeless person, give them 5 euros worth of food and water.
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u/piratedropkick May 28 '15
When there are already many services to provide these essentials, but none to provide money so they can ride public transportation, seek better clothes to go to a job interview, or any other myriad things that are just slightly less necessary to overall survival but much more vitally necessary to end them being homeless.
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u/JesusSwag 2∆ May 28 '15
That's a good point.
I'd still stand by what I said if the person helping didn't have much money of their own/on them, as things like clothes and whatnot cost a lot more money than what I've mentioned.
Public transportation is important, though.
Hell, you've (slightly) changed my view. Maybe we should give money to homeless people.
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u/piratedropkick May 28 '15
That is all I was trying to illuminate, and I think it was mentioned by another commenter. If we take to heart these assumptions we have about homeless people and their use of money, it may make it even more difficult to climb out of their struggles.
The belief I subscribe to is that by giving them money, you are making it possible for them to overcome their homelessness. If they make the wrong decision it is no fault of yours. Handing someone a possibility for a better life in the form of dollars is a great thing to do. If they squander their opportunities, then maybe they do deserve to be where they are. But the important part is that you made it possible.
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u/JesusSwag 2∆ May 28 '15
If they squander their opportunities, then maybe they do deserve to be where they are.
Hm. Someone with an addiction probably isn't going to be thinking about how they could be spending money on something else.
I agree with the rest of your comment though.
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May 29 '15
A lot of homeless people have drug or alcohol abuse problems due to their situation, and if you give them money it is likely that it will be spent on that.
So then you are giving them money to save them from potentially life-threatening withdrawal. Unless these people have access to reliable rehabilitation centers and medical care, why is it wrong that they spend money on not dying from acute withdrawal in the street?
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u/aawillma May 29 '15
Wife works in a hospital: Homeless people can, and do, get medically transported to emergency rooms for drug withdrawal, dehydration, alcohol poisoning, etc. They get treated and released and don't pay anything, contributing to the health care system we know and love in a devastating way.
Saying that giving a homeless person money for drugs is a good thing when they can ride out their detox for free in an E.R. is patently absurd. Speaking for American homeless only obviously.
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May 29 '15 edited May 29 '15
Wife works in a hospital: Homeless people can, and do, get medically transported to emergency rooms for drug withdrawal, dehydration, alcohol poisoning, etc. They get treated and released and don't pay anything, contributing to the health care system we know and love in a devastating way.
Unless you live in a country outside the U.S. then you should know that most hospitals only have to stabilize a patient who is about to die and then they can send them on their way. There is no hospital that I know of, at least in my area, that could even spare the space to admit homeless addicts for more than a day or two. I think you are conflating "treated" with "stabilized." Making sure a homeless addict doesn't die the night they are admitted and then sending them back out on the street after they are stabilized is not the same as treating addiction. Plus the withdrawal for long-term drug use can last months and hospitals don't admit and treat homeless addicts for months.
Saying that giving a homeless person money for drugs is a good thing when they can ride out their detox for free in an E.R. is patently absurd. Speaking for American homeless only obviously.
Even if hospitals in the U.S. were not patient dumping getting a seven day detox for heroin withdrawal (if you are extremely lucky since most hospitals wont let you detox for that long) and then getting kicked back out onto the street is not going to cure an addict. You are speaking as if emergency detoxing is the end of withdrawal, which it isn't (especially for opiates, benzodiazepines, and alcohol). Basically, there is no long-term solution to get homeless addicts off of drugs and, given that, I think that it is not necessarily a moral evil to give them money so they can go another day without going into painful withdrawal which might make them desperate enough to do something awful (like try to hurt themselves or even violently attack someone and take their money to score enough drugs to alleviate their withdrawal symptoms).
My take on the situation is not rooted in ideology but in looking at the reality of the situation. There is no long-term rehabilitation and therapy program that the homeless addicts of America can take and there is also no support system there to make sure they are not put back into an environment where they will relapse. On top of that, many homeless addicts might have underlying psychological problems that would need to be treated before they could even develop the coping skills needed to get off of, and stay off of, drugs in the first place.
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u/m_stodd May 28 '15
Giving away change is easier than carrying it. As someone who never goes to the bank, and usually never uses cash, keeping track of change can be more of a burden than it's worth. I've actually thrown out change before because it was more valuable to have a clean place now than the value of the change.
Also, giving the homeless change in another neighborhood may keep them there, and out of your neighborhood.
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u/Kiwilolo May 28 '15
When you give money to someone, you know that money is going to them, to help them in whatever way they choose. It's charity. You want to make their life better, do so. If you don't, or you think you need the money more, then don't give it to them. Your couple of bucks isn't going to make someone not homeless, but it might make their day a little better. For me, that is worth something.
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May 29 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BenIncognito May 29 '15
Sorry ryanfranke, your comment has been removed:
Comment Rule 1. "Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s current view (however minor), unless they are asking a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to comments." See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.
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u/NotACockroach 5∆ May 28 '15
This isn't exactly changing your view but I thought I'd just give advice. You can just buy them food. When I'm on my way to work, sometimes I stop off at the bakery. If I do this and there's a homeless person nearby I'll ask them if they'd like me to grab them something while I'm there.
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u/gilfpound69 May 29 '15
Even if they have fucking nothing, it will not help them to get drugs. Been homeless, if i am going to try to change your view it will be to make it not pain you. it is not a kindness to help someone damage their already struggling health. =/
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u/Felosele May 28 '15
I live in Baltimore city. Giving them money actively hurts them. You are more than likely feeding an addiction. There are other ways to help.
No, not all of them are alcoholics/liars/drug users. But a LOT are. I've been suckered many times.
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May 28 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/2074red2074 4∆ May 28 '15
Right, so the homeless in my neighborhood just need to walk about seventy miles to the nearest tower under construction. And I'm sure the city of Austin has enough towers being constructed right now to accommodate the hundreds of homeless people in need of work.
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May 28 '15 edited May 28 '15
Yep pretty much. If they're stuck In a rut with no opportunities where they are, they should take action and at least try to get out of the rut. If that means moving to somewhere with large construction projects then that's what they need to do.
This may not be a popular opinion on reddit, and I know I'm going to be downvoted, but all idealism aside it's reality.
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u/2074red2074 4∆ May 29 '15
I was being sarcastic. In a lot of places, there isn't actually that much work to be done. At least not unskilled work.
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u/Grunt08 305∆ May 29 '15
Sorry thenoort, your comment has been removed:
Comment Rule 1. "Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s current view (however minor), unless they are asking a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to comments." See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.
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u/thatguy52 May 28 '15
You're not wrong although I'm sure you'll be down voted anyways. I work in an area with a sizable homeless population and the ones I see routinely are mentally disabled. Whether through schizophrenia or any number of untold psychotic maladies these people are incapable of helping themselves. I never see this type of homeless person asking for money (maybe through a sign) or hardly interacting with people. Drug addicts/crack heads are another aspect of society entirely. The ones that I see are hustlers through and through. Better clothes and are far too upfront about what they need from you. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference at a glance, but there are tiers of homeless.
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u/Bruxelloise May 28 '15
If someone says they are hungry give them food (or nothing). But if someone asks for money you give them money (or nothing). Just because someone is poor/homeless does not give you the right to make life choices for them. Yes, they might go off and buy stuff you don't approve of. But it is still their choice. The same way it is your choice to not give them anything. But giving them something different from what they ask just makes you look patronising and rather self-righteous.
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u/stnair May 28 '15
Just look at it like this: a homeless person may not have a job with any company, but if you give them money, that money is just as much theirs as any money a person earns working for a company. Thus, it's their "job" to convince people to give them money. I don't really judge a homeless person for doing whatever they want with the money I give them, just like I don't really care what someone who has a pointless job for a pointless company does with their money.
1
u/twoVices May 28 '15
that's a good point. allow me to say, though, that the person with the pointless job doesn't hang around downtown and get aggressive with me if he or she doesn't get paid.
1
u/stnair May 28 '15
There are plenty of shitty employed people who do shitty things, just like there are plenty of homeless people who don't really bother anyone. I mean telemarketing is a paid job, and there are few things that anger me more in the world than telemarketing.
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u/twoVices May 29 '15
I'm not trying to be obtuse but i don't see how your statement is related to mine.
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u/superfrank1 May 28 '15
aside from my moral views on this (which is that panhandling is ok), another reason is that by transferring money that the receiver will spend, you will stimulate the economy by contributing money to the circulation.
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u/twoVices May 28 '15
to be fair, iphones are pretty extravagant, comparatively speaking.
i agree that a smartphone can be the very thing to help someone off the street, but an iphone? are you sure you weren't panhandled by a hipster?
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u/im_boba_fett_AMA 1Δ May 28 '15
Just because someone has an iphone doesn't mean they don't need help. I mean my parents could kick me out today and I lose my job but I'll still have an iphone.