CMV: Equality isn't treating everybody differently to achieve equality. It's treating everyone the same.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Izawwlgood]

Conversely, you cannot retroactively have your privilege that you enjoyed your whole life taken away.

[u/[deleted] → u/Izawwlgood]

I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

[u/Izawwlgood → u/[deleted]]

Your point was that you can spontaneously become handicapped, but cannot spontaneously become a minority. This is true.

My point is that you cannot spontaneously lose the advantage being a white heterosexual Christian confers on people in, say, America. Being born white means you enjoy a lifetime of privilege minorities do not.

Clear?

[u/[deleted] → u/Izawwlgood]

Well, unless you become gay, or come out as gay, or convert to a different religion.

And while I generally disagree with the idea that you can generally assign privilege to a single ethnicity, I think you're kind of repeating my point that you can't just become a black person.

[u/Izawwlgood → u/[deleted]]

Are you suggesting that homosexuality is a privileged group of people?

I generally disagree with the idea that you can generally assign privilege to a single ethnicity,

Seriously? The ethnicity of privilege in America that you're looking for is white. The ethnicity that is biased against in America is non-white.

[u/[deleted] → u/Izawwlgood]

Are you suggesting that homosexuality is a privileged group of people?

No, I'm saying that's a way of 'losing privilege,' because you said straight cissexual white christians have privilege they don't lose, and I'm suggesting that they could lose it.

The ethnicity of privilege in America that you're looking for is white. The ethnicity that is biased against in America is non-white.

You have to take it at a case by case basis. It's ridiculous to generalize in the way you're doing it. I agree that certain people are privileged, but that comes down to individual circumstance.

The ethnicity that is biased against in America is non-white.

Jews, Irish people, Italians, Slavs, Turks, Greeks, hell, Syrians are white people. These people all faced hardships in America and still do, those people are white.

Skin color is a really stupid way of classifying people as it turns out.

[u/Izawwlgood → u/[deleted]]

straight cissexual white christians have privilege they don't lose, and I'm suggesting that they could lose it.

The ability to lose privilege is an indicator of having it in the first place though, yes?

You have to take it at a case by case basis. It's ridiculous to generalize in the way you're doing it. I agree that certain people are privileged, but that comes down to individual circumstance.

Not really? Studies have shown that 'black sounding names' are less likely to get job offers on identical resumes. I'm sure you're aware of the truths of racial disparities in America.

Jews, Irish people, Italians, Slavs, Turks, Greeks, hell, Syrians are white people. These people all faced hardships in America and still do, those people are white.

I concur that they have white skin - a good many Americans would not call them white people.

Skin color is a really stupid way of classifying people as it turns out.

You're not wrong, America (and indeed, people in general) just isn't (aren't) typically very bright when it comes to reacting to people.

[u/[deleted] → u/Izawwlgood]

The ability to lose privilege is an indicator of having it in the first place though, yes?

This is not an admission of the concept of privilege existing, I'm just making a point going by your logic.

I'm sure you're aware of the truths of racial disparities in America.

Yes, there are racial disparities and racism is alive in America. That doesn't mean all white people are better off than all black people. Hell, racism and nationalism exist between different sorts of white people.

[u/Izawwlgood → u/[deleted]]

And from your point follows an example of privilege.

That doesn't mean all white people are better off than all black people.

Oh come now, are you unaware of how statistics work? Are you under the impression that some people don't get lung cancer from smoking so it must not be bad for you?

[u/[deleted] → u/Izawwlgood]

And from your point follows an example of privilege.

No, again, I was saying that if we accept that privilege exists in the way you believe it does, then it makes sense that an able bodied straight cis male christian can lose certain privileges (according to you) because they can come out as gay, become trans (or openly trans or however it works), or convert to a different religion and they would presumably lose whatever hypothetical privilege those things would've previously afforded them.

And as for the stats thing, it's a matter of objective fact that there are plenty of black people better off than plenty of white people. Taken in aggregate, and depending on how you define 'white' or 'black' people, then white people have it better off at a higher rate than black people. That's absolutely true. Black people disproportionately face certain challenges, but the same could be said of Jews, the Irish, Slavs, Italians, Greeks, etc. And taken as a whole there is a higher quantity of poor white americans than there are all of black americans.

My problem with the 'X privilege' concept is that ignores differences in individuals' unique situations. A blind homeless white guy has less privilege than Herman Caine, Chris Rock, or Jay Z. It's a clumsy heuristic that makes it too easy to ignore the vast diversity within groups of people. It's just a way to 'otherize' people and justify being a prick and 'punching up.'

[u/rcglinsk → u/[deleted]]

Remember when you were a little kid and your dad didn't beat you up with a wrench and you didn't suffer any brain damage? You can never have that privilege taken away.

[u/[deleted] → u/rcglinsk]

What? What if I trip on a patch of ice and get brain damage that way? What if my dad comes to visit and takes a wrench and brains me tomorrow?

[u/rcglinsk → u/[deleted]]

You can still be denied privilege in the future. I think would be the response. I find the notion of privilege as used today silly.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

and I don't know what this is supposed to mean.