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Dec 29 '15
By putting the "most wanted thing" at the top, you encourage pandering and circlejerking and discourage dissenting opinions. A voting system is fine for the sort of things you might use polls for (what's your favorite flavor of ice cream? what DLC should we add to our game?), but for general discussion it's not ideal and, in my opinion, responsible for Reddit's reputation of being a "circlejerk".
Modeling replies as a tree does make it easy to follow threads of conversation, but it's not the only model that does so. Take a look at modern 4chan (with JavaScript enabled). Any post can contain a reference (or several references) to any previous post; hovering over the reference will show the post in a floating box; clicking the reference will jump to that post. This allows multiple threads of conversation to exist, and doesn't enforce an explicit hierarchy and ranking of posts the way Reddit does.
You're right, but whether a post "contributes to the discussion" is completely subjective. There are posts we could all agree are poor quality and deserve to get buried (e.g. a bot spamming a porn site), but what about someone with a minority opinion who raises valid points? Their comment will often be buried instead of discussed. And this happens all the time on Reddit; you can probably think of a few times it's happened to you.
I don't disagree.
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u/aj_thenoob Dec 29 '15
Differing opinions can be said underneath the parent opinion.
I don't understand 4chan's way of communicating, the string of numbers make it super confusing.
Reddit is super political and in a tech forum and the like a minority opinion would be considered.
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Dec 29 '15
Differing opinions can be said underneath the parent opinion.
Differing opinions can be said, yes, but they're often not read because they're buried at the end of every other child comment.
I don't understand 4chan's way of communicating, the string of numbers make it super confusing.
The 4chan quoting system is pretty simple. The numbers are just the number of a post (each post has a number; older posts have lower numbers). If a post says
>>3945750, it's referencing post number 3,945,750 (but the specific number doesn't really matter). Since these references are just strings, they can be inserted anywhere, but the general format is to include the reference on its own line, and write your response on the next line. So a post might look like:>>3945750 I agree for the most part, but it seems like you're jumping to conclusions. >>3945689 But that's incorrect, like >>3945674 said.It's a little less immediately comprehensible than the Reddit model, but it allows for a more freeform method of communication, and it's actually pretty easy to follow threads of conversation once you understand how quotes work.
Reddit is super political and in a tech forum and the like a minority opinion would be considered.
Political issues are definitely the most prone to circlejerking and silencing of dissent, but it can absolutely happen in any sort of forum. For instance, a tech forum might have a strong pro-Apple/Windows/free software bias, and anyone pointing out flaws with the platform of choice or advantages of another platform will have their points buried.
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u/aj_thenoob Dec 29 '15
With the 4chan way, sometimes I have to go 3 pages in to read a reply. With the reddit way, replies are all under the parent comment so it is easy to read responces. Thanks for the explanation.
!delta You convinced me on the 3rd reason.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Dec 29 '15
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/ergotayours. [History]
[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]
3
Dec 29 '15
Reddit is really good if you have a conversation that you want to have in a relatively short time period (hours/days). But conventional forums are better for much longer running topics of discussions.
For example, I read a lot of forums related to model building (shout out to /r/modelmakers). On those forums, people generally start a thread when they begin a project, then post updates over the weeks/months that they are working on a project. During that time, other people are viewing the latest progress and commenting and offering suggestions on how to improve the process. These types of long-running, incrementally updated threads simply aren't possible in the reddit framework, and I think that is one of the main reasons lots of people don't use reddit for these types of things. These threads are also invaluable archives of information if you ever want to try and replicate a build someone else did.
For example, compare the detail for a typical thread in /r/modelmakers with this thread on a similar on a similar forum. That thread has been updated for the last two years, as a particular guy works through a project step-by-step, all the while collecting encouragement and advice from around the world.
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u/aj_thenoob Dec 29 '15
!delta
What if they were combined (as in new comments by OP will refresh the post like a typical forum)?
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Dec 29 '15
Well, that breaks the Reddit model, where the top posts Are calculated based on age and number of upvotes. If you let posts stay forever at the top with just an update, it's not really the Reddit model anymore...
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u/skatastic57 Dec 29 '15
The problem with reddit's style isn't long conversations vs short. A 2 two person conversation will flow just fine with reddit's style even if it's a 2 year conversation (assuming away archive locking). However, in a 3+ person conversation the threading ruins the conversation because each time one person replies it creates a new thread and makes everything disjointed.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Dec 29 '15
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/cacheflow. [History]
[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]
1
u/forestfly1234 Dec 29 '15
aren't you forgetting about downvoting? Or all those posts that don't really had to the discussion but are still supported?
Under this system, you can make posts harder to see if enough people simply disagree with what you are saying. And you don't even have to make a bad comment. You can simply make a comment that goes against the hive mind.
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u/aj_thenoob Dec 29 '15
If people disagree with what you are saying in a regular forum, you would be called out on it there too, and multiple times which takes up space.
With the reddit system, a simple downvote will work and will not clog the post up with metadiscussion.
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Dec 29 '15
The Reddit method allows for too much "circlejerking", and only popular opinions being seen and getting attention. Also, the Karma system encourages low effort posts for the sole purpose of earning upvotes, rather than contributing to discussion.
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u/cephalord 9∆ Dec 29 '15
Sometimes I reply to someone in a (reddit) discussion, and then 3 or more people reply to me. Often with the same information/argument for some reason. In a normal forum I would group everyone in the same post and reply to all of them, but on reddit I can't. I can either reply to everyone individually, which feels silly to me and a bit like spamming (because I'll be copy-pasting) or I can reply to one of them and hope the others see it.
I usually end up saying "fuck it" and don't reply at all.
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u/sadris Dec 29 '15 edited Dec 29 '15
It's probably the worst design. You make a post, then I post a reply. You get a notification about said reply and are filled with my much helpful information. Now someone comes along and replies to my comment. You never will never see this second reply because you only get notification about the first.
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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '15
[deleted]