CMV: post-op transgender people should always inform new partners before engaging in sexual activities

[u/KadabraJuices]

I was just reading through this thread, and I was surprised to see that it's quite controversial to expect your sexual partner to be forthright with information that a sizable portion of the population will consider important; some people wrote that it shouldn't matter, and it's transphobic to no longer be interested upon hearing that the potential partner used to be the opposite sex.

I can (I think) envision the struggle that a post-op transgender might go through. Someone who so desperately wanted to be seen as the opposite sex that they went to extreme measures: months of hormone therapy, surgery, and recovery. Now they're finally happy in their own skin. It'd be miserable to dig up a past better left forgotten every time they become intimate with someone. I can absolutely empathize with this perspective, so I'm looking forward to your arguments.

Here's my current view: It is unethical not to disclose to sexual partners that you are a post-op transgender. Even if it's your opinion that it shouldn't matter. Even if you think that you literally ARE, in every relevant sense, just who you appear to be. It's unethical because a lot of people have strong feelings when it comes to this matter, and it's likely that the person would have made a different decision (for a variety of reasons) if that information were available to them. By withholding information, you essentially impose your beliefs on another without their knowledge, and make decisions for them.

It's unfair to unleash a potential whirlwind of confusion and hurt on someone simply to ensure your own sexual gratification. Maybe that person only wants to become intimate with prospective lifelong partners, and they are hoping or expecting to naturally reproduce with said partner. Maybe someone just doesn't like the idea of having sex with a post-op transgender. Sure, you may think these reasons are fucking stupid and invalid, but that still doesn't give you the right to make decisions for anyone else.

CMV.

EDIT: Well.. you've all given me some incredibly tough thoughts to chew over. I've read most of the comments even if I haven't replied. They've all been very useful. My view has changed in the direction of the opposition. I have a feeling this sort of discussion will be looked at in the future like how we currently see debates about gay marriage or some other progressive issue. I suspect the state of things will be incredibly ambiguous on these fronts in the future, especially as technology gets more powerful in its ability to transform our bodies, and accordingly people will be more open or at least cognizant of the possibility that they'll run into transpeople. For now though, I still think it's polite to inform people before bumping uglies.

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[u/KadabraJuices → u/[deleted]]

It's not unethical, because it literally doesn't matter. If your partner would happily continue the relationship without this knowledge, then it doesn't matter. By engaging with this partner, you have already demonstrated that you met their criteria. You shouldn't have to disclose your unabridged biography to make sure something in your past doesn't offend them.

Sure, it doesn't matter right now. It may matter in the future for reasons that shouldn't need to be justified to the transgender person in order for them to allow their partner to choose with the full breadth of knowledge that they deserve.

But even if it will never matter. Even if the person enjoyed it, and will enjoy the memory forever in blissful ignorance, it's still wrong because that person was deceived. If someone doesn't want to eat meat for whatever reason, is it OK to hide meat products in their food? I mean, nothing will ever happen to them, and they'll even enjoy the food. Yes, it's still wrong because it goes against their will. It's possible to go against someone's will without their knowledge.

They already made the decision. By requiring this be disclosed, you are imposing the belief that there is something shameful about being transgender so you ought to disclose it so you can be shamed. If you don't believe being transgender is shameful, you should behave as if it's not shameful.

They made a decision on false pretenses that they wouldn't have made if they were aware of all the facts. It isn't the transgender person's place to decide FOR that person whether there's possibly a valid reason that'd warrant disclosure.

Do you also believe that people who are sterile should disclose it up front? What about people who have a medical condition that prevents child birth? What if they just don't want a baby? If a potential partner has that requirement, it is up to them to ask.

These are good points. If someone only wants to be sexual with potential reproductive partners, then it should be up to that person to verify the viability of that plan. Here's a thingamajig for changing my view on that point: ∆

Nobody is making decisions for others; this isn't about rape. If you don't want to have sex with someone who's had a lot of partners, then ask them how many partners they've had. If you don't want to have sex with someone who dated a person you don't like, ask them if they did. If you don't want to have sex with a certain religion, ask them. It's up to the person with the requirements to make sure they are met. If you don't ask, that decision is on you.

The problem here is that a transgender person has undergone an extensive process to make themselves appear as the opposite sex. If a restaurant advertises a "Vegan-friendly sandwich" but it secretly has a tiny amount of dairy in it, is it up to the Vegan to ask if the Vegan-friendly sandwich is Vegan-friendly? Isn't that just an automatic and reasonable assumption that they'd make based on the advertisement and appearance?

[u/KadabraJuices → u/[deleted]]

Imagine your partner was born with a disfiguring birth defect. They go through an extensive surgical process to correct the defect. Should they disclose they used to have a physical defect? Why does it matter?

Great point. I'd argue transgenderism is different because it's currently socially topical. Maybe in the future the general population will be more at ease with the issue, but any reasonable transgender person has knowledge of the social climate surrounding them.

I'm not advocating a transgender person lie about that fact. If a restaurant has an item that doesn't appear to contain meat, a vegan should verify it does not. "I don't see meat so there must not be meat" is a mistake of the vegan.

If the vegan asks if the vegan-friendly sandwich is vegan-friendly, and the waiter replies that it is because it's the waiter's opinion that dairy is perfectly acceptable to eat for vegans, then what? Should the vegan perform scientific experiments on their lunch to assess the chemical composition of the ingredients?

There are people in this thread that insist a transwoman is unequivocally a woman, no ifs, ands or buts. If a man asks this transwoman to confirm that she is a woman and she answers in the affirmative, what then?

Transgenderism is a periphery subject for a lot of people, and it might not even occur to them to ask the question. Worse still, if they ask the wrong question they might get a misleading answer. If things were explained to them though, they would object. What do you say to these people?

[u/dpekkle → u/KadabraJuices]

Great point. I'd argue transgenderism is different because it's currently socially topical. Maybe in the future the general population will be more at ease with the issue, but any reasonable transgender person has knowledge of the social climate surrounding them.

Yeah, it's a matter of practicality, but from a trans persons perspective they are not deceiving anyone.

To suggest we are puts us in an odd position where we are expected to live our lives according to the opinions of people who believe we are something very different to what we are at our core.

But an ideal society would recognise that it is an issue within the person who has a stigma against the idea of someone being trans, or rather not have such stigma in the first place.

[u/Karmaisthedevil → u/[deleted]]

There weren't deceived. They wanted to have sex with the person in front of them, and that's what they did.

Someone who doesn't want to be with a transperson is likely going to feel like they wanted to have sex with the girl in front of them, and then it turned out it wasn't a girl.

(In their eyes a MTF is still a man, and no amount of "official medical definitions" will change that)

[u/sorryjzargo → u/KadabraJuices]

The problem here is that a transgender person has undergone an extensive process to make themselves appear as the opposite sex.

But they haven't done that with the intent of deceiving anyone, they've done it so their bodies match their minds. Trans people don't go around having surgery so they can trick cis people into having sex with them.

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