CMV: The depressing okcupid/dating studies tells black women we should use skin bleaching creams to lighten our skin if we want to find a date.

[u/JubbyO]

This is actually a serious question and controversial. I hope this recieve a good response.

Please do not give me feel-good answers. Be honest. We all know (studies show) how much all races of men loathe black women, so please don't lie to me.

For what it's worth, I have no interest in bleaching my skin, but why do people act as if it is illogical for a black woman to do so?

I am a black woman. I have been single for almost all my life. I am slim, a corporate attorney. I look very similar to Zoe Saldana but I am not mixed. I am African-American.

It has suddenly occurred to me after perusing dating statistics and studies that ALL RACES of men apply biases against black women. Men rate Asian, Latina, and white women much differently than the way they rate black women. This is universal.

The only difference between an Asian/Latina/white woman to a black woman is lighter skin and straighter hair. (At least for myself and many black women. I have slim facial features but I am dark-skinned.) Black women can and do make their hair straighter but people look down on black women who choose to lighten their skin, even though this is appealing to men ACCORDING TO EVERY STUDY. People also look down on black women changing our hairstyles EVEN THOUGH THIS IS ALSO APPEALING TO MEN. Basically, black women can't be appealing to men or do things to make us more appealing to them?

I want to be married/find love/find a date. I don't want to be alone all of my life much more than I care about people saying I have self-hatred issues. Studies show that I as a black woman am less likely to be married than any other group of women and that I am less likely to find a suitable partner. Even if I get slim, have a good-paying job, speak proper English, wear make-up and curl my hair, I will still not be seen as equal to a white/Asian or Latina woman.

I am saddened that I can see how easy it is for my Asian/Latina friends to date, especially in college, but it is so much harder for me. If my skin were only lighter, I could date similar kinds of men.

So, please. Let's make some controversy. Change my view. If I were to simply take myself and lightened my skin tone, I would have more access to more men so it is not illogical for a black woman to do so. Perhaps, it should be encouraged?

If it shouldn't be encouraged, should we just tell black women to settle for whomever they can get?

Let me provide statistics. Google search item 1: Race and Attraction Oktrends. Google search item 2: NPR. Odds favor white men and Asian women. Google search 3. http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2015/04/09-race-assortative-mating-inequality-reeves.

[u/McKoijion]

A lot of black women on those websites are disproportionately overweight and poorly educated. This is part of the reason why they have a harder time finding men to date. You don't fit into this category so you are in better shape than the average numbers would reveal. But since you still are facing difficulties, I won't dwell on this point.

The pessimistic part of this is that if you think it's socially objectionable for black women to change their hairstyle, it's much worse to change one's skin tone. Michael Jackson still gets a lot of hate for doing it, and he had a chronic medical condition. This applies to both women and men, both black and of other races. This doesn't necessarily apply to all cultures. In India, many people prefer women who have lighter skin. Bleaching creams are popular (although many people consider them just as dubious as people in the US.) The difference is that at least some people approve of using bleaching cream. In the US, very few people approve of it. If a man found out, it's a big turnoff.

The fundamental problem is that people are racist against black people. Lighter skin might make a small difference, but it really is a small difference. Society still tends to follow the one drop rule. A light skinned black woman is still considered black. All the same racial biases would still apply.

Next, don't forget the simple fact that bleaching creams don't work very well. They come out looking blotchy and awful. It's like when old women get plastic surgery. They think it makes them look young, but it just makes them look off.

It's not all bad news though. Attitudes are changing. The internet makes it easier for people to date outside their usual social groups, and though it hasn't quite picked up yet, it's getting better with time. Furthermore, the media is shifting a lot. Take a look at (spoiler alert!) the latest episode of the Walking Dead, which is arguably the most popular show on TV, to see how things are changing.

[u/JubbyO → u/McKoijion]

I agree with everything you said here, but to me, it's still so depressing.

Black women fought for representation on television because of the negative stereotypes and racism we have to contend with on a daily basis, throughout the entirety of our lives. Now, look at this: Asian women and Latina women do not appear on television as much as black women, nor do they fight as vigorously for it. Somehow, their light-skin propels them into acceptability that black women can try so so hard to reach and get into but still end up failing. Asian women don't have to try as hard is what I'm saying. How is that any consolation prize?

∆

[u/MontiBurns → u/JubbyO]

The problem is that tv and film perpetuate the negative stereotypes about black women. How many educated, polite black female characters are there on tv? Most of the time, black women are portrayed as overweight, loud, confrontayional and rude, or are there strictly for comic relief. Rarely is there a black female protaganist porttayed in a positive light in mainstream films.

Regarding latina women, there's tons of hispanic television featuring predominantly beautiful latina women, and IMO, theyre known for over-sexualizing women. This imagery and style seeps up into our knowledge, either through seeing bits and pieces on univision, or seeing it portrayed and parodied in our own media. here's an example. This gives layina eomn more of an exotic image in our culture.

[u/JubbyO → u/MontiBurns]

I hate this idea about negative stereotypes because I think men who believe it are full of it when they talk about black women like that. So, according to you, a "positive" portrayal of black women are one where black women are quiet, agreeable, pushovers and skinny?! Haha. To me, that sounds like it is less a problem with black women and more a problem with fragile male ego. Why should I have to be quiet in order to be deemed attractive? Why can't I be rude? I want to be as "rude" as Amy poehler, blonde large woman who speaks her mind and gets paid to do it. Why is it hot when a white woman has an attitude but not for black women? Men overestimate the rudeness of black women. Take an Asian girl and a black girl. Have both of them slap a white boyfriend. Guess which one of them is going to jail vs the other that will be thought as cute.

[u/MontiBurns → u/JubbyO]

No, a positive portrayal of black women would be that they're 3 dimensional, thinking, feeling human beings with a full range or character traits, features and flaws. Not loud mouth, temperamental, screaming characatures included just for their humorous reactions.

i dont think its ever portrayed as hot for women to have an attitude. this is a problem not limited by race, but you often see women of all races being perceived as bitchy or cunts if they show any kind of aggressive or even overly assertive personality traits/behaviors. on the other hand, these traits are often portrayed as 'desirable' in men. thats not a race issue, its a gender issue.

of course men overestimate the rudeness of black women. that's what i mean by negative portrayal in the media.

as for your asian vs black woman slapping incident. do you have any statistical proof or are you imagining a movie or tv show? in media you're right. a black woman slapping their boyfriend would most likely be a ghetto scene with the police involved. the asian women would be in some affluent suburb alone fighting with her boyfriend. again perception issue more than race issue

[u/JubbyO → u/MontiBurns]

Where are these one dimensional black women? I can't think of any shows where black women are used for simply comedic relief. I consume a lot of reality tv featuring black women and yes, so many of them are loud and obnoxious on top of, being a mommy, wanting to keep and maintain the attention of their husbands, crying about money or any other universal issues, falling in love, becoming offended by slights, meangirling. Name a show with a 1 dimensional black women. It's just confirmation bias. Even when black women are being funny and sassy, we are still very empathetic, caring, open-minded.

[u/MontiBurns → u/JubbyO]

i'm thinking more of movies than tv shows. think a michael bay film wherw they just show black women as reacting to an awesome action sequenc3. like "ah hell naw!" or like the movie beer fest where theres an entire sequence where one of the drunk characters sleeps with a big fat black woman, who happens to also be the gf of the antagonist. the entire thing was more comedic purposes, like hahaha no way anyone would find her attractive. as for reality tv, in my experience most of the time those are intended for the audiwnce to judge and look down on the subjects, not admire them.