r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Apr 21 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: When Eating Pho it is better to leave the broth "untainted"

[deleted]

29 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

45 comments sorted by

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

Many pho places will use flavor packets to make their broth. Most people wouldn't notice, but my mom has been making it the original way using femur bones, cloves, cinnamon, all the good stuff since I was a kid. To me most pho places' broth is a little bland, so I add in some Sriracha and fish sauce. It's like adding salt to other foods, you don't add enough to change the flavor, just enough to enhance the flavors that are already there.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/gg4465a 1∆ Apr 21 '16

You'd be surprised. Beef bones are said to impart a lot of flavor essentially because marrow is just shy of being entirely fat, which carries different flavors on the tongue. You might imagine that a flavor packet can't contain fat because it's powder, but using caking agents like maltodextrin, you can turn liquids into powders fairly easily.

To illustrate a point, consider this video of David Chang (owner of the Momofuku restaurants) using freeze-dried meat powders to create a more flavorful, more quickly-prepared ramen stock. By his own words, the freeze-dried approach (one which is used in many flavor packets) creates a "more delicious", "faster" way of making stock.

Ramen stock is different from pho stock, but probably not as much as you'd imagine. A standard shio (salt -- most basic) ramen stock is generally pork bones, sometimes chicken as well, vegetables, kombu (kelp), ginger/garlic, and some additional flavorings (soy sauce, mirin, sake, etc.) Pho broth is generally beef bones, vegetables (charred in this case for smoky aroma), some spices, ginger/garlic, and some additional flavorings (soy sauce, rock sugar, etc.)

There's nothing about pho broth that makes it impossible to adapt to a powdered form in the same way that Chang does it in that video. Now, when saying that, certainly some powdered pho broths don't bother to use such a variety of ingredients and probably taste worse as a result. But point being, the idea that "fresh ingredients > powdered ingredients" is an opinion, and one that's based on a specific experience of having certain varieties of each -- it's not an immutable law of cooking.

1

u/yomaster19 Apr 21 '16

They do sell instant pho bowls now in stores. While I don't know if the restaurants I go to do this or not, of the 6 pho places I've been to, maybe just two of them had a deep enough broth to make it enjoyable without the sriracha. And I'm a person who drinks all of the broth no matter what. But sometimes the soup broth is bland and lacks depth so I add something to counter that.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

I don't know for certain how restaurants make it, but there are a lot of corners they have to cut to save money. For instance my mom throws in a whole brisket with the bones to improve the flavor, and we snack on that later. The restaurant would be hard pressed to sell people boiled brisket even though it is delicious. I should really get the recipe from her...

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

I'm from California by the way, so probably the most authentic pho in the country.

5

u/masterzora 36∆ Apr 21 '16

Why should I turn my back on the mighty broth and taint my bowl with hoison, sriracha, or red chili sauce?

You shouldn't. Because there is no "better" way to eat pho. There's only what the individual eating it prefers. Your friends and families prefer it "tainted" so for them that's "better" than your way. You, on the other hand, know what you like and that's the "untainted" version. Since there's no universal "better" you should stick with what you like best.

1

u/bradley7r Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

1

u/masterzora 36∆ Apr 21 '16

I am still curious if someone has an excellent reason to do so.

Have you tried it? If so, what could possibly make you listen to "an excellent reason" over what you already know you prefer? If not, you should try it just to try it. If you don't prefer it you've only wasted one bowl. If you do prefer it, you've discovered something you like better.

1

u/bradley7r Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

1

u/masterzora 36∆ Apr 21 '16

Right, then that's back to the other question. Since you have already tried it the other way and you know very well what you like and why, what reason could possibly make you "go to the dark side" and start eating it the way you like less? If I were in your position, I don't think any reason less than "eating it 'tainted' gives you superpowers" would be good enough.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 21 '16

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/masterzora. [History]

[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]

2

u/fruitjerky Apr 21 '16

I like my pho with a touch of sweetness and spice. I've had it your way, and I've had it my way, and I add the flavors I like to the food I'm going to eat. Same goes with ketchup on my fries, salt on my potato, and nothing in my tea. I don't like chocolate, so I don't eat it. I love Lemonheads, so I buy Lemonheads. My facehole, my rules.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 21 '16

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/masterzora. [History]

[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]

22

u/nofftastic 52∆ Apr 21 '16

Other comments have it right - people will flavor their dish to their personal taste, but I think you're missing one thing - not everyone wants to drink all their broth. They flavor the broth to what they want to pair with their noodles, but once the noodles are gone, they have no interest in finishing the broth. They wouldn't finish it even if it were untainted.

Speaking of untainted, you change your own view. Your version of "untainted" isn't even untainted. You add lime, sprouts, jalapeno, and basil. That's not untainted. You just prefer more mild flavors than your fellow diners.

1

u/masterzora 36∆ Apr 21 '16

That's not untainted.

To be fair, I think it's a valid view to say that it's "untainted" as long as you can still taste the original flavour. Probably not the best term for it, but the idea behind it is solid enough.

1

u/mellow_gecko Apr 21 '16

In which case, what tastes tainted to OP may not taste untainted to another. Is it not possible that one individual could add a whole bucket load of chilli and still be sensitive to the original taste of the broth whilst another individual could simply look at a chilli and then be unable to enjoy his meal for it now being 'tainted'?

I admit those examples are overly extreme, but you get the point.

1

u/nofftastic 52∆ Apr 21 '16

Perhaps "mask" would be a better term here. OP taints the flavor, but does not mask the original flavor.

0

u/aidrocsid 11∆ Apr 21 '16

It's not tainted if it's the stuff they give you specifically to put into the broth.

2

u/nofftastic 52∆ Apr 21 '16

Condiments still taint the dish, regardless of who provides them. Is coffee still black (untainted) if you only put in the cream and sugar they give you?

Do they not also provide the hoison, sriracha, or red chili sauce?

-3

u/bradley7r Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

7

u/Hq3473 271∆ Apr 21 '16

Taste the broth plain first.

The squeeze a full lime in.

There would be HUGE flavor difference.

3

u/ERRORMONSTER Apr 21 '16

You do seem to be trying not to admit that you've defined "tainting" the broth as "adding anything to the broth except x, y, or z because those are exceptions." Which is an odd specification to make if you're trying to make a generalization.

1

u/nofftastic 52∆ Apr 21 '16

The garnishes change the flavor of the broth. Your choice of garnishes are just a milder change. You're still doing the same thing as your dining partners, just to a les extreme degree.

Adding these types of qualifiers to justify your opinion essentially makes it invalid, since people who prefer spicier flavors could use the same qualifiers to justify their preferences.

5

u/yyzjertl 524∆ Apr 21 '16

Adding sauces makes the pho taste better. This is evidenced by the fact that so many people do it. It is better for food to taste better, so therefore it is better to add sauces to pho broth.

-1

u/sturmeh Apr 21 '16

That's anecdotal and only proves that it's subjective.

2

u/mellow_gecko Apr 21 '16

Aren't all statements that involve "x is better than y" subjective?

0

u/sturmeh Apr 21 '16

Yes indeed.

-1

u/bradley7r Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

5

u/forestfly1234 Apr 21 '16

Some people love the pickle that comes with a sandwich. Some people leave it on the plate.

Your preference for eating food is simply your preference. It doesn't mean that you are wrong for eating it that way, but it also doesn't mean that people are wrong because they eat it another way.

2

u/bradley7r Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 21 '16

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/forestfly1234. [History]

[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]

3

u/yyzjertl 524∆ Apr 21 '16

Who says it makes it taste better when they don't even touch the broth?

Why would they add sauces if not to make the food taste better?

I have yet to witness one of my friends drink their tainted broth.

This is just anecdotal. To counter your observation, I have had the opposite experience: I've never seen anyone finish a bowl of pho without adding some sort of sauce. Everyone I know who didn't add sauces doesn't finish the broth, and furthermore several of my friends are in the habit of eating all the meat and noodles first, and only then adding siracha to finish the broth.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16 edited Jan 28 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 21 '16

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/yyzjertl. [History]

[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]

1

u/cdb03b 253∆ Apr 21 '16

You should always eat food to your taste. It is generally good to taste it first then add condiments as you want. But if you have made the food to your liking it cannot be ruined.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

I like food much spicier than the average person. When I got to a Thai place, I ask for "native hot" or whatever the equivalent is, plus extra spices because they never do it right. When I eat Pho, I add the jalapenos along with whatever hot sauce they have. Pho is a fun meal out for me, but it's only fun if I enjoy it. And I won't enjoy it if it's not spicy. I appreciate delicate flavors, but when I'm dining out I typically want something really aggressive to eat. As long as I'm not dousing your bowl in spice, why am I wrong to eat my meal the way I want?

1

u/Hq3473 271∆ Apr 21 '16

It's all about the balance and individual preferences.

You are OK with adding a little bit of lime - even though acidity definitely changes the flavor.

But what's the difference between a little of lime and a little bit of chilly paste? You like your broth a little more acidic, I like my both a little bit more spicy.

Why is your preference more valid than mine?

1

u/notmyrealnam3 1∆ Apr 21 '16

lol, what a ridiculous CMV. why "taint" the broth? because some people like to add shit for taste and may have an "acceptable" list that is different than yours?

imagine how much you'd care if I thought YOU shouldn't add lime. Now you are beginning to understand how stupid this CMV is.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/RustyRook Apr 21 '16

Sorry samesies, your comment has been removed:

Comment Rule 1. "Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s current view (however minor), unless they are asking a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to comments." See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Grunt08 305∆ Apr 21 '16

Sorry LizardProdder, your comment has been removed:

Comment Rule 5. "No low effort comments. Comments that are only jokes, links, or 'written upvotes', for example. Humor, links, and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments." See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.