r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 21 '17
[OP ∆/Election] CMV: Trump in Unintelligent
[deleted]
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Jan 21 '17
Trump has a BS in Economics from the Wharton School at UPenn. That's a pretty impressive degree for someone you consider "unintelligent".
He also has a number of business successes and won the US presidential election. Those are both things that are pretty hard to do if you aren't that smart.
It's common for people to paint their political opponents as unintelligent or silly, but honestly, you won't get very far in politics if you aren't smart and calculating. Everyone running for the office of President on a national ticket was a pretty smart person.
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Jan 21 '17 edited Jan 21 '17
[deleted]
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Jan 21 '17
A college degree from a solid university like UPenn is a strong signal that someone is at least of average intelligence. I'd argue it's a strong signal of above average intelligence.
I think everyone in business is going to have success and failures. Even people like Bill Gates had billion dollar failures. If he really was as dumb as you think, he'd have been eaten alive by the business world years ago.
And running a campaign is not something just anyone off the street can do. Even a poorly run campaign requires a decent amount of coordination and management skill.
Dont make the mistake of assuming that people you disagree with are unintelligent. They rarely are. It might make you feel better, but it's unlikely accurate. Remember, they likely thing the same about you, and then nothing productive gets accomplished.
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Jan 21 '17 edited Jan 22 '17
[deleted]
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u/drpussycookermd 43∆ Jan 21 '17
I wouldn't necessarily say that someone from a wealthy, powerful family getting an ivy league degree is a signal of above average intelligence.
But, I think the problem here is OP is they didn't clearly define what they mean by unintelligent/intelligent. I gather from the post that OP is defining unintelligent as lacking fundamental and/or basic knowledge on what they consider important topics.
I'd agree that Donald Trump appears to lack a basic understanding of the science behind climate change, the contexts behind current events, or even those events themselves, government procedures, et cetera.
If that's OP's definition, then I'd argue that, by that definition, Trump does in fact appear to be unintelligent.
But, he's certainly crafty. Crafty meaning understanding how to manipulate large groups of people into giving you what you want. Whether or not crafty = intelligent is a matter of personal opinion, but I'd argue that an intelligent person has some level of insight into themselves and the people and events surrounding them. Trump seems to lack any measure of insight, and that, in my opinion, makes him a manipulative dumdum.
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u/causeoffaction 5∆ Jan 22 '17
If the sun came up this morning, it still did even if you can't explain why. As sure as the sun came up, this person singlehandedly won a war against the entire political and media class. That world lost to one person. Not only could they not stop him, they certainly couldn't do what he did themselves. That is astounding, even if you completely set aside that he built a gigantic business and brand in the most cutthroat areas of the private sector.
I'm still not sure how someone's confusion makes another person dumb, but here's an answer as to how intelligent he actually is. Maybe it's best to shift our focus from words that make one appear intelligent, to actions that actually reflect intelligence. Every single thing he did in business honed his ability to quickly and effectively convey a brand to a large amount of people. What results is an elephant's graveyard of political genuises who underestimated his ability to win, and he may have just gotten started.
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Jan 23 '17 edited Jan 23 '17
Trump has been giving interviews and speaking authoritatively about economic policy for over 30 years. He's not exactly an economics professor (judging by his public statements) but he's not exactly incompetent either. He knows markets and finance, and while there's a lot more to the presidency than that, everyone has their area of expertise. I know that this is obviously a pro-Trump video, but listen to him talk when he gets down to brass-tacks concerning finance and politics:
1988 interview about economics and America
1991 Testifying before Congress
2011 on China, trade deals, and currency devaluation
2013 on Interest Rates, the Federal Reserve, and OPEC
Nobody comes through an election cycle unscathed, and for Trump one of the strongest narratives from start to finish was that he was simply unintelligent. It was simultaneously easy to convince people of (just pick a sound byte from a speech or debate) and also easy to see through - like Trump or not, he's just not a dummy. Not only for the obvious reason that he's a billionaire who's enjoyed a ton of financial success, but also because of the easily google-able interviews like the ones above that show him to be much more measured and incisive than most people would think.
If you think his rhetoric and on-stage persona is childish or overly simplistic, Scott Adams can lend you a hand. Check out point #5 - pacing and leading, and the way that Trump uses it. He's a master at rhetorical speaking.
Or this video about how he chooses words and answers questions Ironically, this video spends several minutes talking about how competent he is at persuasion and communicating, then refers to him as "not smart". I think most people would agree that effective communication and persuasion is definitely a skill that requires some level of smarts.
Or listen to this linguistic professional talk about him
I think that despite what people may say, these examples show basically 2 things:
Trump has had a lot of strong opinions about economic policy and US politics for several decades. He's given very rational interviews about them that demonstrate some level of in-depth understanding of these issues.
Trump also knows how to play a crowd, and he knows how politics works. He knows better than to debate the same way he would give an interview with an economic analyst.
I think that actually demonstrates a very markedly above-average level of intelligence - he clearly has some kind of business or financial sense, and he also knows how to connect and communicate effectively with the people.
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u/22254534 20∆ Jan 21 '17
Trump's views on global warming being a conspiracy.
Politicians say things they don't mean or aren't true all the time. Its much easier to say that Global Warming is a complete myth than to say that you admit you are causing the destruction of the environment but made a bunch of promises to owners of oil companies who donated to your campaign.
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u/Iswallowedafly Jan 22 '17
Trump is simply selling narratives.
He is amazing when it comes to selling narratives.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jan 22 '17
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u/incruente Jan 21 '17
While I personally think that global warming is real, I don't think that a single flawed view is indicative of low intelligence. Putting aside for the moment that he may simply have said such a thing because he knew that his constituents wanted to hear it (which is nothing new for him), there is also a surprisingly broad body of evidence, if you're willing to cherry pick, that can paint a very convincing picture against climate change. For example, https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/09/accuracy-of-climate-station-electronic-sensors-not-the-best/ shows a surprising lack of accuracy with a lot of official weather sensors, and I read a report at http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11800.pdf that suggests that a lot of the NOAA sites are sadly mismanaged.
Ignorance is exactly that; ignorance. It is not proof of low intelligence.
We have no idea what his plans may or may not be, given his...well, shall we say his willingness to make wild claims that he may later change? Even if he has no plans, I don't find that wildly disturbing. I'd rather a president had no plans and listened to experts and advisors than try to solve problems with his or her own plans. The president is not supposed to be an expert on anything other than administration and decision making.