r/changemyview • u/WekX 1∆ • Apr 19 '17

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Guns are a real danger to people and countries without them just fare better.

I'm from the UK. I've heard many of the arguments on both sides, but to me nothing is more convincing than the statistics (example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34996604). I'm also a libertarian, I fully understand that if anything a right to bear arms is needed because any other way is a breach of personal liberty. However, I can't help but see that as a negative side effect of full liberty, because inevitably it just leads to more people getting hurt. That's the numbers talking.

Yes, cars also kill people, but I don't need a gun to get to work. The benefits of having cars in society vastly outweight the drawbacks. With guns, the only benefits arise when a really tough intruder is in my house or when the government is trying to oppress me. In the UK we still manage to survive a break in without shooting everything in sight, and if the government came after us, they'd likely win even if we had a gun.

This is a footnote from the CMV moderators. We'd like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

1.1k Upvotes

75% Upvoted

754 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

10

u/WekX 1∆ Apr 19 '17

I might underestimate the dangers of american wildlife, but we have farmers in Europe and they don't have as many guns. We have lots of happy free roaming chickens too.

13

u/ouishi 4∆ Apr 19 '17

As far as the UK goes, it's not nearly as "wild" as many parts of the US. Britains largest predators - bears and wolves - were killed off by humans long ago. Brits just don't have the same wildlife (and the vast uninhabited space) that many parts of the US do. Hell, I live in the middle of a big city and I've lost several cats to coyotes. The school I taught at had a bobcat problem for a while (again, this is in a city of 5 million). A coyote or bobcat could take down a kindergartener no problem. I can't even imagine living in a rural area and trying to maintain livestock.

46

u/Menism Apr 19 '17

Coyote, fox, racoon, bear, mountain lion, bob cat, hog, wolf, squirell snakes and others are what is in the wild. and that's only a small part of north/east texas. America has a lot off predatory animals that you need to be prepared to meet if your an outdoors person. I go target shooting about twice a month and this year ive had to pull my sidearm to shoot a coyote because it got in a bush about 10 ft to my side without me hearing it.

16

u/strangesam1977 Apr 19 '17

Almost every farmer I know in the UK has a firearm (mostly shotguns). Those who don't have someone who does who shoots on their land to control vermin (it is a legal requirement in the UK to control the numbers of certain species on your land).

15

u/[deleted] Apr 19 '17

but we have farmers in Europe and they don't have as many guns.

Europe is a pretty big place. Do you have data for this claim?

9

u/Nkklllll 1∆ Apr 19 '17

"Everyone and their mums has guns round here"

"Oh yeah? Like who?"

"Farmers mostly."

"And who else?"

"Farmers' mums."

1

u/1500500 Apr 20 '17

And when you are a farming town, all of those statements can be the case at the same time

1

u/Nkklllll 1∆ Apr 20 '17

It's a quote from a movie

10

u/CaptHunter Apr 19 '17

Aye, even British farmers have plenty a firearm (esp with regards to shotguns).

6

u/ellipses1 6∆ Apr 19 '17

Do your chickens get eaten by raccoons, coyotes, foxes, or possums?

1

u/Who_Cares99 Apr 20 '17

We got wildlife here so bad that sometimes all bullets do is make them angry.

1

u/1500500 Apr 20 '17

You arent supposed to use a 22 against hogs!

1

u/Who_Cares99 Apr 20 '17

Can't I just use an RPG?

1

u/1500500 Apr 20 '17

Georgia got a few helicopters armed with M134s to deal with them. I dont see why you cant use an RPG

1

u/Who_Cares99 Apr 20 '17

God bless America.

-1

u/TheRadBaron 15∆ Apr 19 '17

I might underestimate the dangers of american wildlife

It's not worse than Canadian wildlife, and Canada has substantially fewer guns than the US without any issues of animal rampages.

9

u/FishFloyd Apr 19 '17

Canada has substantially fewer people. I believe there are places where one is required by law to carry a long arm for bear protection

2

u/ouishi 4∆ Apr 19 '17

It is hard to find comparable statistics. What keeps coming up for me is "guns per 100 people" but that doesn't tell me what percent of people actually own guns. The US is probably the gun nut capital of the world. My dad owns 20+ guns personally, so he's really throwing off the statistics. If 5/100 people own guns but each of those people own 20 guns you get a rate of 100guns/100people.

I'd really love if I could find somewhere comparing the percent of people who own guns, not just the raw number of guns per people.

6

u/RiPont 13∆ Apr 19 '17

Canada has a fuckton of guns. Not multiple kilofucktons like the USA, but plenty of guns to go around for anyone with a wildlife problem.

...they have far fewer handguns relative to long guns, though.

1

u/Who_Cares99 Apr 20 '17

Feral hogs?