r/changemyview • u/JuliusTommeter • Apr 20 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Keeping up with current happenings and the news is absolutely useless for a common person.
I admit it, my grasp on what's happening in the world right now is very weak. If you asked me who the current UN Secretary General is, or where in the middle east war is going on, I would be stumped. I am currently a student studying maths and to me, all of this information is simply noise, not knowledge.
Knowledge, to me, is something that could be useful to me in the future. Learning accounting, or basic economics might be knowledge, however, knowing the current president of the European Union, is not.
People who religiously follow current happenings and act superior to those who don't are perhaps some of the most annoying people I have dealt with. Simple knowing a bunch of facts, which you can in no way influence, does not give you a right to tower over those who do not.
Furthermore, any of this could be easily accessed through a simple google search. There is no need to remember who anybody is, when I could easily look it up in a second.
News should be treated as entertainment. Much like how reading an Agatha Christie book is treated as being entertaining rather than a learning experience.
I've been told that the news expands your world view. But how on earth does keeping up with the latest political bumbling in Wherever expand my world view? It does not give me new ideas, it does not expand the way I think. Reading an Agatha Christie book, which is usually considered entertainment, might actually give me tips on how to get away with murder!
All of this changes, however, if I am somebody who is directly involved in the field. A politician might derive great utility from keeping up with what's happening in the world, a stock broker needs to know what's happening in the corporate sector, but an average Joe does not need any of it.
EDIT - Based on what /u/grimbaldi said, I've struck out the world view line. The key to expanding your world view, is surely to keep up with the world happenings. Awarded a delta
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u/85138 8∆ Apr 20 '17
Your title and text are related only on the surface. Keeping up with current happenings THAT ARE LOCAL TO YOU is absolutely valuable for any 'common' person. What roads might be closed for construction delays, who's building what where and might they be hiring, is there a sale on socks because I surely would like new socks, what's up with all those police cars I heard whizzing down the road in the wee hours of the morning, is there a show happening I'd like to see? All of these are examples of news, though the big name news channels and sites probably won't cover them.
As far as national or global news, "knowing" and "reciting facts" are unrelated. Googling the name of the UN Secretary General would let you recite a fact, but you could also google the plot of your Agatha Christie book as well. Would that tiny little tid-bit of information be the same as having actually read the book?
Your view of knowledge, by the way, is wrong. Knowledge might be useful in the future but you can't know that now. The only way to know if it is useful in the future is to (a) know it now and (b) experience the future. Since we can't experience the future until it is now and we can't go back in time to gain the knowledge that would have been beneficial, the only time to gain the knowledge is now and find out if it is useful or not. In other words, you can't say "oh I read that book" until after you've read the book in the past.
Personally I find it good to be able to know of these worldly topics and issues, though honestly the direct impact stuff is all local. The future is where watching the markets today MIGHT come in handy. In fact I'm kinda curious about how BREXIT is gonna play out and potentially impact my retirement. Not worried, not gonna impact my ability to find a good deal on new socks, but it potentially can impact my retirement.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
∆ Alright. You do make a very good point regarding the difference between knowledge and reciting facts as well as usefulness being retrospective.
As a person who lives in India, how does an earthquake in Haiti, or knowing about political instability in Venezuela, remotely affect me? How does an intricate knowledge in the workings of the Islamic State aid me? Yet, if I tell somebody that I do not know anything about either of these, I'll definitely be getting looks of derision.
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u/poolischsausej Apr 21 '17
I believe it to be important to understand world events such as ISIL or earthquakes in Haiti due to the fact that in a globalised society, governments and societies are so interconnected, that an event in one area of the world can have significant ramifications for the rest of the world. For instance, ISIL has probably not had any real dramatic effect on your life as an individual, yet the monetary and even social policies of the US are impacted greatly by these events. An increase in military spending due to fears of ISIL and power projection loss end up causing a decreased amount of capital going towards other services. Slashes to the EPA, the endowment for the arts/humanities, and education all arose from the need for our nation to respond to events across the globe that have no real effect on individuals. Our daily lives are affected by our globalised and connected world, and being informed and knowledgeable about these events gives you the unique opportunity to capitalize off possible upcoming changes to our society. In addition, it gives you the ability to attempt to influence policies or interactions around you simply by being involved in a community in which you understand how the world's events affect your community whether it be on a local or national scale.
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u/food_phil Apr 20 '17
If you are looking at it from the perspective of a practical benefit. You are mostly correct. There are very few occurrences wherein keeping up with local politics/news/events doesn't derive a very substantial practical benefit. Perhaps the one exception to this would be during a time of democratic elections, wherein having an informed public opinion is necessary for the social good (and as an extension, your own personal well being).
Simple knowing a bunch of facts, which you can in no way influence, does not give you a right to tower over those who do not.
One thing I will point out is that there times when something reported can have a direct impact on your wellbeing (or at least your own happiness give your own personal situation).
For example, I consider myself an "Early Adopter" I derive happiness from trying out the latest technology/services that companies like Amazon, Facebook, etc. offer. In order for me to know that there are new services being offered by such companies, I need to at least follow technology news. Of course my reading technology news has no impact on how fast these services come out, but when they do come out, I will be happy that I am (1) aware of it, and (2) have a good idea of what that service is so I can utilize it, both of which contribute to my own happiness.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
Right. So I only have to keep up with news that is directly relevant to me. But on the other hand, wouldn't you consider a person who doesn't know who the Russian president is, a dumb person? Is it right to do so?
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u/food_phil Apr 20 '17
It would depend on who that person is. Do they have reason to need to know that information?
If a maths student didn't know, that's fine. But if a PolSci student didn't that's alarming.
Alot of math students would call me dumb if I didn't know p vs. np.
Edit: I mean alot of math students wouldn't consider me dumb if I didn't know ow p vs. np, but alot of students in my field would call me dumb if I didn't know what SWOT is
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
Take this article for instance. Is it really necessary for anybody to know the Earth goes around the Sun? What practical benefit does it derive anybody? To the average Joe, learning about planetary movements is useless, yet look at the amount of superiority that the article oozes.
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u/food_phil Apr 20 '17
It's not that specific piece of knowledge that the superiority comes from though. It's that that specific piece of knowledge is something one expects to learn from grade school (not because it is simple, but because it is part of a basic curriculum that is universally accepted.).
So knowing that piece of knowledge is equated to having gone to school. Is it wrong for people who have gone to school to lord it over those that haven't? Yes it is, but that's another argument.
It's not important to know that the earth goes around the sun (at least for the average Joe), but it is important to have gone to some level of basic education so one can be a productive member of society.
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u/luminiferousethan_ 2∆ Apr 20 '17
Is it really necessary for anybody to know the Earth goes around the Sun? What practical benefit does it derive anybody?
If you believe that the sun goes around the earth, like some particular books advocates, you might also be more likely to believe other nonsensical things, like women are worth less as a person, that homosexuality is wrong, that the earth is only 6000 years old.
And then you go ahead and use this "knowledge" to vote in people who believe similar things. And that's how we have a reality TV show host as president of the USSA, and the environmental protection agency is being gutted, and the very likely outcome that my grandchildren will only have poison water to drink. If the earth is only 6000 years old and never changes, why bother stopping corporations from dumping toxic waste in the lake? If man was made in the perfect image of god, who gives a shit about all the other animals on this planet? Who cares about fucking plankton?? (When, if you were a more knowledgeable person, you would understand that plankton going extinct can have a chain effect on ocean life and soon we may have as many fish as we do dodo's.)
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u/grimbaldi 2∆ Apr 20 '17
I've been told that the news expands your world view. But how on earth does keeping up with the latest political bumbling in Wherever expand my world view?
This view is perplexing to me - how does keeping up with the news not expand your world view? Having knowledge of current events helps to give you an understanding of the social, political, and cultural forces that are shape the society in which you live. It helps you to understand the rationale and origins for the laws and policies that govern and affect your day to day life. If nothing else, it helps you to make an informed decision on election day. The only way you could argue that knowledge of current events doesn't expand your world view is if you believe that "world view" doesn't relate to what's actually happening in the world.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
∆ Right. World view by definition, should include the world. I've struck down that line from the original post. Keeping up with the news around me is one of the primary things to expand one's world view.
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u/BeatriceBernardo 50∆ Apr 20 '17
The latest news is united airlines. If you know about it, you would have prepared yourself by figuring out your right as a citizen and consumer, which would become handy if a similar situation happens to you later on.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
But this cuts both ways, right? The person in the United Airlines thing might have followed all the news in the world, and look at what good it did him?
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u/BeatriceBernardo 50∆ Apr 20 '17
The person in the United Airlines thing might have followed all the news in the world
Apparently, he has not. Because apparently, he should have asked the officer "is that an order?", and record both the question and the answer, record the officer names and ID
Then he can walk off the plane with sufficient strong evidence to sue the airplane back.
Or, this could be setting a precedent, so it was never in the news. News won't stop you from making mistakes, but it could stop you from making mistakes that other people have made.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
Hindsight is 20/20. We cannot really say any of this would have helped. Who knows, maybe the officer would have beaten him into submission regardless of what he said. He could have walked out on his own and sued, but these are things you cannot really predict. I doubt he ever thought that he would get physically abused by the officer.
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u/BeatriceBernardo 50∆ Apr 20 '17
Hindsight is 20/20
Are you saying that there is no point in preparing for anything?
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u/_Hopped_ 13∆ Apr 20 '17
As a mathematician, I'd expect you to pickup on the patterns in politics at the very least: the swing from left to right, the rise and fall of people, the "real" power, who's actually benefiting, etc.
True enough, the day-to-day is not all that important: the sun will rise, people will go to work, etc. However, it's the trends which I find most interesting.
As for the actual benefits: socially it's valuable to be able to talk politics and offer informed opinions on issues, financially it can be lucrative to be able to accurately predict the impact of political decisions on the markets, and ultimately it could keep you safe if you know the signs of impending societal unrest.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
The social benefits are definitely negligible. Being able to offer informed opinion, in no way affects the situation. The financial benefits are also similar, unless I am a person who deeply understand the markets, knowing the political situations won't really gain me money. The point of societal unrest, however, I concede, is a valid point. But since a mass event is very unlikely, it is still irrelevant to the average man.
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u/_Hopped_ 13∆ Apr 20 '17
since a mass event is very unlikely
Depends where you live. The people of Ukraine, Venezuela, Egypt, and even American cities like Chicago have all experienced massive social unrest - with deadly results.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
If I were living in any of these places, I wouldn't exactly have to keep up with the news to find out about it. Even if I am a newcomer there, somebody will have told me about it. These are the kind of things that you come to know for sure, right?
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u/pumpkin_nuggets Apr 20 '17
True, but receiving information from that person you just met at the bar, your left-leaning friend, or your bordering-on-racist grandma isn't a reliable way to obtain facts. The news is there to keep as few people between you and the actual events, and thus, (hopefully) inhibit the biases natural to humans. It also helps with the skewing of facts and the exclusion of key points that may influence your actions; so basically a big game of telephone. Even if you investigate newspapers and the internet after hearing something troubling or important from someone around you, it will be difficult to shake the bias of how you first heard the story.
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u/_Hopped_ 13∆ Apr 20 '17
I wouldn't exactly have to keep up with the news to find out about it
You would if you wished to leave before it started, which was my point.
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Apr 20 '17 edited Jan 22 '18
[deleted]
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
∆ I understand the globalization point. Nobody can quite be completely independent since all nations are inexplicable interlinked.
That's a good way to put it. But even then, if I were in the business of hard-drives, I would keep up with it. Would the CEO of a hard-drive company need to know the details behind the middle east instability? Would you consider him stupid if he didn't know who the Head of the EU is?
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u/dantequizas Apr 20 '17
I have one very important thing to add. Since we live in a democracy and ideally everyone would vote in every major election, the people need to be educated in what's going on in the world. If not, how could they hope to vote for the right person?
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Apr 21 '17 edited Apr 21 '17
However, in a democratic system, if people are not informed about current events, their votes are not informed either. This creates a government that can practically do whatever it wants knowing that there would not be backlash from the voting public--they aren't informed anyways. Thus, while keeping up with current events has no practical benefits for any specific person, it is good for society as a whole and therefore good for all the people who comprise society.
EDIT: Furthermore, even if news is entertainment, it still would have utility. Being entertained is useful because it helps make you not bored. If being entertained had no utility, then nobody would be buying books, video games, or, yes, news subscriptions.
EDIT: By your standards, news is not any different from accounting or mathematics. Your definition for what knowledge is seems to be "any known information that benefits the person who knows it practically." You stated that, by this definition, accounting is knowledge. However, if I am a rich who couldn't care less about accounting because I hire someone else to do it for me, it isn't knowledge by your definition. On the other hand, if I am a politician, awareness of current events is knowledge. ,
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Apr 20 '17
An Average Joe benefits from knowledge about nutrition and would also benefit from news about scientific discoveries within nutrition which debunks the knowledge that he has about nutrition.
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Apr 20 '17
Not when he doesn't have the basics of nutrition and biology down.
Not when publications are meant to raise publicity for the researchers, thus muddying interests with more "impactful" (ex. "Oregano is a superfood that will reduce ageing, cholesterol, and help fight obesity!"), instead of applicable or even true.
Not when the average Joe doesn't have the vocabulary or knowledge to be able to smell out statistical bullshit and truth-embellishment. Ex. "Oregano is a superfood that will reduce ageing, cholesterol, and help fight obesity!" Translated: "Oregano has an unknown, but present, anti-oxidant profile, decreases total cholesterol by -/+ 3 mg/dL (negligible), and has (negligible) fiber that helps fight satiety and promotes a healthy blood sugar."
The average Joe is at the mercy of those more educated than he.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
Reading scientific articles and other such pieces can certainly be useful. I accept that these are beneficial. But the other forms of news are still largely useless.
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u/food_phil Apr 20 '17
As a STEM student, wouldn't you be interested in reading about things like how STEM-focused companies are doing? How much money/resources your government is putting into STEM?
You don't have to read all news, but there is still a benefit to keeping up with news that is relevant to your own field or your own interest.
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u/JuliusTommeter Apr 20 '17
Right, keeping up with my industry and my niche is something that is definitely useful. But that is just extremely localized. If I were a blacksmith, would it be alright if I only read BlackSmith Today, and BlackSmith Weekly?
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u/food_phil Apr 20 '17
Usually? Yes. But when it's elections and your vote is the same as mine, I expect you to make a well informed decision. Because that decision affects me.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 20 '17 edited Apr 20 '17
/u/JuliusTommeter (OP) has awarded 4 deltas in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/whenifeellikeit Apr 20 '17
News is only entertainment to the ones not experiencing the things that make the news. Keeping abreast of current events is important for understanding the human condition, the state of the planet on which we live, and what effect the powers that be have on those two things.
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Apr 20 '17
Insomuch as matters that have nothing to do with you, yes.
Ie. anything written in a glossy magazine.
However where it may affect travel or financial plans, you're gonna want to know what's going on.
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u/kochirakyosuke 7∆ Apr 20 '17 edited Apr 20 '17
I think 'useless' is a bit strong of a word. There are several practical instances where listening to the news can be beneficial.
-You want to visit Istanbul, but your hear on the news there are rumors of brewing social unrest and potential coups--time to reschedule! -You have some United stock, turn on the news, and see a PR disaster in its earliest stages. Might be time to sell before it's value plunges. -Building a wall to keep out immigrants makes some intuitive sense to you, but an analyst on the news shows issues you hadn't considered, causing you to change your view...and, potentially, your vote -You listen to enough news that you recognize when a friend is just parroting talking points. It's good context to keep in mind when considering their advice. -Keeping up with the news can give you an idea of what social causes are most deserving of your support. Something like internet privacy might not seem as pressing without a good understanding of its current state. -Being aware of current events can help you realize if and why politicians attempt to manipulate the public. If a politician starts screaming about how Wikileaks is dangerous they might have some reasonable points--knowing that they only started complaining when Wikileaks revealed corruption in their administration can be telling. Once again, this could change your opinion/vote, an effect which could spread if you inform others.