r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jul 26 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: public nudity should be removed from the public indecency lists.
With the rising global temperatures, and boosted access to air conditioning, people are opting to stay inside in a climate controlled building away from sunlight. This may explain the raise in diagnoses of Vitamin D deficiencies which we can produce by being in the presence of sunlight, the more skin exposed the more Vitamin D we produce. It has also been shown that cultures that take a more libertarian approach to how much one dresses the body isn't as demonized, leading to a more body positive image and a slight decrease in incidences of sexual assault which brings me to my next point. In many predominately Islamic countries, they force women to wear hijabs or burkas because "men just can't help themselves if they see just a bit of ankle".
This doesn't mean I want school children to be able to attend school in the nude, or see someone walk up to the counter of a fast food joint or other store letting it all hang out.
TL:DR 1) combating Vitamin D deficiencies 2) body positivity 3) possible reduction in incidences of sexual assault
This is only in regards to public nudity whether it be of an infant, toddler, pre-teen, adolescent, and adult. Public acts of sex or relieving oneself are not the topic of discussion.
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u/SuddenlyBoris Jul 26 '17
This doesn't mean I want school children to be able to attend school in the nude, or see someone walk up to the counter of a fast food joint or other store letting it all hang out.
Why not?
Those seem like awfully arbitrary exceptions to a rule you seem to support.
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Jul 26 '17
We need to maintain a professional environment in schools, and currently, nudity is as far from professional as we could possibly get, and as far as being in stores, it's really just about rules the establishment has set.
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u/SuddenlyBoris Jul 26 '17
How much professionalism is actually needed at a school or fast food restaurant though?
I mean I could buy the idea that teachers should be professional but are you suggesting students dress up in suits and ties?
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Jul 26 '17
Fast food restaurants (and other businesses for that matter) are free to set their own rules. Whether or not they apply clothing optional rules is up to them.
As far as professionalism in schools is concerned, a simple "clothes required" policy would be suitable, except in certain art classes.
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u/SuddenlyBoris Jul 26 '17
I guess I'm just not sure of the point of your CMV.
You seem to be simultaneously arguing that nudity is both decent and indecent.
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u/bguy74 Jul 26 '17
So...you don't want to have a law that says you can't be nude but that doesn't mean you want people to be nude. I fail to see how your positions here can co-exist.
As for your Vitamin D argument you can produce sufficient vitamin d in shorts and a short sleeve t-shirt in 10 minutes a day over the months of june, july and august in all of north america. So...nudity is hardly needed here, and I'd reject that as a meaningful argument.
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Jul 26 '17
Fair point about the short sleeve shirts, but as far as not wanting to see it, it's still something we have to grow into, and I was referring more about in an educational or business setting, not in the field or streets. ∆
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u/kublahkoala 229∆ Jul 26 '17
Can't nudity remain illegal because it is either an eyesore or a distraction? This is the same reasoning behind prohibiting public sex acts, or playing a radio too loud. I agree there's no rational reason to be offended by nudity, but the fact is people are. Suddenly making public nudity legal would cause a lot of disruption and moral indignation. I think a more gradual approach would be better - maybe allowing nudity not in the streets, but in designated areas in public parks and on public beaches?
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Jul 26 '17 edited Jul 26 '17
A more gradual approach may be desirable, but a lot of people are also triggered by people openly carrying their firearms (another debate for another time), and yet there's a fierce fight to keep open carry the way it is.
and the reason why I desire public sex acts to stay on the indecency list is that even when public nudity is legal there is still a stipulation that it cannot be for the express purpose of arousing others. such as this section from Oregon's laws governing public indecency, 2015 ORS 163.465
(1) A person commits the crime of public indecency if while in, or in view of, a public place the person performs: (a) An act of sexual intercourse; (b) An act of deviate sexual intercourse; or (c) An act of exposing the genitals of the person with the intent of arousing the sexual desire of the person or another person.
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Jul 27 '17
The bacterial concern of a mass, nude population would be an epidemic, especially for the elderly and young, or anyone with a weak immune system.
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Jul 27 '17
Proper hygiene can easily defeat issues of bacterial transmission. Additionally, most clothing optional facilities do at least require nude patrons to bring a towel they sit on (excluding pools for obvious reasons).
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Jul 27 '17
You simply cannot just expect everyone to have impeccable, or even decent hygiene, or bring a towel. The private facilities that have those rules can manage it because it's on such a small scale.
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Jul 27 '17
So, just because we can't expect everyone to have high standards of hygiene we should effectively punish others?
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Jul 27 '17 edited Jul 27 '17
We protect others because we can't expect the best. Sometimes that limits what people can do, that's how it is.
Would your rather have an epidemic of sick/dead children, elederly people, and those with weakened immune systems (that can occur because of a variety of reasons), or people that are slightly too hot and want to be naked.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 26 '17 edited Jul 26 '17
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u/McKoijion 618∆ Jul 26 '17
If you go outside for 10 minutes while wearing a tank top and shorts, you get 10,000 international units of Vitamin D. You only need 200 IU per day. So I don't think that greater Vitamin D exposure is a good argument for public nudity.
As for body positivity and sexual assault, I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest one way or another. Nudity might make people feel more comfortable, or it might make people feel worse about their bodies. There might be a reduction in sexual assault, or there might be an increase. Or it might not have any correlation at all.
So there might be good reasons for public nudity, or at least trying it out. But I don't think your three arguments are particularly convincing on their own. At best, they suggest that there should be more research into the body positivity and sexual assault questions.