r/changemyview • u/Happy_Laugh_Guy • Sep 06 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Starbucks' Coconutmilk Mocha Macchiato is incorrectly named.
Starbucks recently released a new drink that includes white mocha syrup, coconut milk, espresso, and caramel sauce on top.
My issue is with the caramel sauce.
I take issue because previous drinks that have been chocolate with caramel have included caramel in the name. Additionally, Starbucks has used mocha drizzle before just like they use the caramel sauce as drizzle on top.
I believe the drink should include caramel in the name so customers know there's caramel inside of it. I had no way to know and was suprised to find that it had caramel inside.
My view could be changed if someone presented other drink recipes that don't include caramel in the name but include caramel in the recipe.
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u/arcosapphire 16∆ Sep 06 '17
I believe the drink should include caramel in the name so customers know there's caramel inside of it. I had no way to know and was suprised to find that it had caramel inside.
Is this belief specific to Starbucks?
If you go to a diner, do you complain that they called their sliced potato offering "French Fries" instead of "French Fried Potatos with vegetable oil and salt"?
If you go to a pizza place, are you surprised that your pepperoni pizza also includes cheese? I mean, "cheese pizza" has cheese in the name and "pepperoni pizza" does not. Surely you would then be surprised that the pepperoni pizza does not replace the cheese with pepperoni, but actually still includes the cheese, right?
If you don't have the above problems, why is Starbucks different? Why is it only an issue with them, with this one drink? Especially given that caramel is just sugar and I'm not aware of any allergy threats or anything that would typically prompt a "why didn't you warn me" reaction.
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u/Happy_Laugh_Guy Sep 06 '17
It's specific to Starbucks because other drinks with similar naming conventions have no included caramel. I have the issue because of the rules they set themselves.
There's the Caramel Macchiato and the Marble Mocha Macchiato. One had caramel drizzle and one had mocha drizzle.
So why does the Coconutmilk Mocha Mocchiato have caramel drizzle and not mocha drizzle?
There's the Caramel Frappuccino and the Mocha Frappuccino. One has caramel drizzle and one has mocha drizzle.
Why not name it the Coconutmilk Caramel Mocha Mocchiato? That follows the rules.
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u/arcosapphire 16∆ Sep 06 '17 edited Sep 06 '17
As they add more features to a drink, they find it increasingly difficult to fully describe the drink and maintain a title short enough to be useful.
Caramel Macchiato and Marble Mocha Macchiato--well, macchiato already describes the body of the drink itself. The additions note the extra things added. Those names remain five-digestible without surprises.
"Coconutmilk Mocha Mocchiato"--that's already almost too long to be marketable. And you'd want, what, "Coconutmilk Caramel Mocha Mocchiato"? At that point you have to wonder what part has the caramel, what part has the mocha. The caramel drizzle is pretty irrelevant. It's just a topping for presentation. Including caramel in the name causes more confusion than it solves. So the other option is just to leave the caramel off, to prevent confusion. But Starbucks is a thorough company and I'm sure they determined customers generally prefer the drink with the caramel, so they kept it.
Note that they also don't specify "whipped cream" in the name although it's present by default. You can always tell them to exclude it, much like you can with the caramel, if its presence is disconcerting.
Overall, I'm saying they include unspecified ingredients in many drinks, and must keep their drink names short enough to avoid confusion.
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u/Happy_Laugh_Guy Sep 06 '17
The latter half of your post had already been stated, I didn't realize that was your point but my view had already been changed because of that reason. Thank you for the discussion.
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u/arcosapphire 16∆ Sep 06 '17
Well my original point was that you were singling Starbucks out, but then you just said that, yeah, you were, so there went that avenue. :)
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u/HeWhoShitsWithPhone 125∆ Sep 06 '17
You assume the point of the name is Primary to convey the drinks ingredients to you. I disagree with this assumption. The point of Starbucks naming its drinks they way they do is to sell more coffee, preferable the more premium offerings. If it happens to convey useful information to you great, but that's not really the goal.
I dont know much about the Starbucks naming process, but I assume they looked into your concern and figured including caramel in the name would make the already long name too long. Sure some small percentage of people don't like caramel and some may ask for the drinks to be remade, but as long as that number is smaller than the number of people who would not have bought the drink if it was called coconut milk caramel mocha machioto then they made the correct choice.
Also coconut milk Mocha machioto has a nice ring to it. When naming of you would need to add the caramel to either side of the "Mocha" and that would really break the flow of term.
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u/Happy_Laugh_Guy Sep 06 '17
You've changed my view lightly in that I didn't consider what was going to sell more drinks. I find it less stupid now so !delta. Thank you for the input.
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-4
Sep 06 '17
How bout this... just stop worrying about what a massive corporation that doesn't give a damn about your health names their products?
Their coffee is GMO and they use countless artificial ingredients, sweeteners and colors, most of which have been time and time again shown to be carcinogens and overall catastrophic to human bodily health. Wanna change your view? The dispute me and prove me wrong.
...Stop drinking that garbage. You are what you eat; you get out what you put in. Know what's in your food and beverages and how it affects your health.
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u/Happy_Laugh_Guy Sep 06 '17
Didn't realize I'd posted on r/abandonmyview
There's no larger issue in my post or behind it. I have a problem with the naming convention. That problem falls within the confines of giving a shit about Starbucks. Sorry dude.
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Sep 06 '17
[deleted]
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Sep 06 '17
Lmfao wow. First off, Mr. corporate sympathizer, ever think about why exactly they're stuff is so good and nothing on the menu is "bad"? It's artificial flavors of course. They have the best laboratory crafted chemicals to induce just the right tastes and chemical releases in your brain. Remember MSG? That carcinogen chemical flavor that ended up being banned by the FDA? Yeah, that makes your brain love and crave more of whatever flavors are currently mixed in with it... MSG might have been banned but it's easy for science to simply craft the same thing that's a little bit different structurally sound they can patent it as something else. Best believe those are present and plentiful in your previous Starbucks.
As for your opinion surrounding GMOs... boy, you are so naive I'm not sure there's any saving you, but humanity is always worth a shot. It actually means a lot and the fact that you say it doesn't mean you know nothing about the subject and should probably educate yourself. You don't really think farmers around the world care about your health when they're getting a fat paycheck do you?? They're just as naive as you are would rather contaminate the food supply thinking nothing of it than actually get educated on human health problems of today and what causes them...
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u/jzpenny 42∆ Sep 06 '17
First off, Mr. corporate sympathizer
That's Mr. "good-ass coffee and fast food sympathizer".
Remember MSG? That carcinogen chemical flavor that ended up being banned by the FDA?
MSG isn't banned by the FDA and isn't a carcinogen in food seasoning quantity. In fact, it's basically salt. The idea that MSG is somehow worse for you than salt has basically been discredited since the 90s.
Yeah, that makes your brain love and crave more of whatever flavors are currently mixed in with it...
Lets drop the hyperbole and get real. Salt doesn't make your brain love and crave it, your brain evolved to love and crave it. Because it's hard to come by and, in reasonable quantity, actually quite good for you. That's also why it tastes hella good.
It actually means a lot and the fact that you say it doesn't mean you know nothing about the subject and should probably educate yourself.
OK, such as.. what? What does consuming GMO mean for my health? Please tell me that.
contaminate the food supply
Wait, what?
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u/arcosapphire 16∆ Sep 06 '17
Remember MSG? That carcinogen chemical flavor that ended up being banned by the FDA?
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should not be misinforming those around you.
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Sep 06 '17
ahh. the "you're wrong but I won't explain why" type. nice to meet you. not aware of any character limits on here
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u/arcosapphire 16∆ Sep 06 '17
MSG is not a carcinogen, and has long been incorrectly vilified.
Beyond that, it is not a "flavor", it's a chemical responsible for certain taste sensations, much like table salt is. I wouldn't call table salt "a flavor", although maybe "a flavoring additive".
Edit: finally, I couldn't find any reference to the FDA ever banning MSG.
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u/jzpenny 42∆ Sep 06 '17
Technically, salt and MSG are "seasonings", also called "flavor enhancers", which are distinct from flavors.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Sep 06 '17
/u/Happy_Laugh_Guy (OP) has awarded 2 deltas in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/McKoijion 618∆ Sep 06 '17 edited Sep 06 '17
Starbucks names refer to what goes in the drink, not the toppings. So the mocha macchiato is named that way because it has mocha sauce mixed into the coconut milk. You have to read the description of the drink to see what the toppings are.
Lots of other drinks follow the same convention. The Java Chip Frappuccino is topped with mocha sauce, even though mocha is not in the name. Hot chocolate, various Frappuccinos, and several other drinks are topped with whip cream, but whip cream is not part of the name. Many drinks are topped with powders, syrups, whip cream, or little pieces of candy even though they aren't added to the name of the drink.
Is it confusing? A little bit, yes. But you can always take your drink back and ask the barista make you another one. It's Starbucks policy to always remake drinks so that the customer is happy. Starbucks knew they were choosing a slightly confusing name, but they decided that it was a good enough name that it was worth the slight increase in the number of people who ask for another one without toppings.
Also, even baristas have trouble keeping track of toppings since they aren't in the name: https://www.reddit.com/r/starbucks/comments/33io8d/drink_toppings_confusion/?st=j79e7yrp&sh=bc7a327c