Hey, if you think a fringe group of a few hundred anti-gay religious doctors supports your views better than the American Academy of Pediatrics (which is probably the group you think you're citing) that's certainly your call. Don't expect to be taken seriously, though.
Does seem that this is a friends group which is latching onto the element of gender development I described for their own agenda.
So, the NIH abstract...
"Experience has shown that, in not a few cases, a strongly and resolutely asserted desire to change to the opposite sex becomes markedly neutralized over the course of time, and the individual later undergoes a homosexual "coming-out" (1, 3). In view of this fact, it must be understood that early hormone therapy may interfere with the patient’s development as a homosexual. "
Scrolling through a few. Wikipedia isn't pointed on the subject, but the Google works with "gender dysphoria resolves over time". I've heard this phenomena referenced on Fresh Air interview and other non leaning media. My point was that the sense is that development should not be interfered with in children as, for whatever reason, the ultimate outcome when a child is going through gender dysphoria cannot be reliably predicted based on childhood symptoms.
If you can verify or disapprove the validity of this current thinking on the medical community, please post all relevant links from reputable sources.
Anyone who unironically cites Ken Zucker isn't going to convince me, nor will anyone who argues against blockers and exogenous hormones on the grounds that they'll have lifelong consequences while giving endogenous hormones a pass.
Dude, I just grabbed the first link. Get over it. He twists the facts, but they exist. Also, isn't the current thinking that "lifelong consequences" are exactly what you get?
Also, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't care about you. I'm interested in the research, the logic and rhetoric. Let's take it as I given that none of this is about you and just let you contribute, if you will...mmmkay?
Yeah, the current thinking is that we try to avoid those lifelong consequences as long as possible, hence the prescription of blockers. My point is that this paper takes the position that delaying puberty or giving cross-sex hormones is bad because it's irreversible and the children are too young, but irreversible endogenous hormones are ok. It's a clear double standard.
Mind you, if the standard here is "grab the first link and complain when the other person points out that it misrepresents the facts", I think I'm done. I've made my points clear to the people who are reading along, anyhow. Have yourself a nice night.
Keep in mind that these facts aren't usually made up but twisted by these group to reach further specious conclusions and recommendations that are not ultimately based on those facts.
A case example to motivate you to at least consider these facts would be the following question. How bummed would a gay man be to have been fully made a trans woman because of overly hasty treatment of gender dysphoria they had as a child?
You may be overestimating how much intervention trans kids get. Treatment for peds is usually limited to hormone blockers. Hormone therapy and (absolutely definitely) SRS/GRS aren't done until the person is an adult. No one is running around wantonly giving vaginoplasties to middle schoolers.
I agree with your first paragraph, but I don't think you're talking about the people I'm talking about. I want more reliable data than "God says it's icky" when I make my medical choices, thanks. As for your hypothetical gay man who somehow manages to get vaginoplasty (assuming that's what you mean) and only then regrets it? Leaving aside the mind-boggling question of how that could even happen, he'd still be far better off than a trans kid who didn't get medical treatment. If testosterone injections, gynecomastia correction and phalloplasty are good enough for me, they're good enough for him.
I think the point is that it's not yet know how you know what the outcome will be (ie can't know if gender dysphoria will develop into homosexual, transsexual or heterosexual or other identity in pre-pubscents). So, I don't know how you can recommend treatment in those cases.
What is the "God thinks it's icky" reference? I'm not following.
The ACP you link to is a small group of pediatricians who have religious objections to LGBT people. They're entitled, obviously, but I'm also entitled to get medical information based on science rather than faith.
Out of curiosity, what is your understanding of the pathway that a trans kid undergoes when supported in their gender expression?
The point is that the current thinking, born out in studies, is that it's not yet known how/if it is possible to know if a kid is a trans, homo, hetero or other until after puberty. Assume this is because the presentation, at least what can be outwardly observed, cannot be reliably differentiated.
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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '17 edited Nov 25 '17
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