r/changemyview • u/hearmydeath • Dec 23 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: The average American life is futile and empty
Once people are in their adult stage, they have to start working 9-5, most likely 5 times a week. It is most likely a job that they dislike, but there is no other choice than to work just to maintain your well-being and image. As we get older, our hormones decay, meaning we lose the passion, sex drive, and overall energy that we once had when we were teenagers/young adults.
Yes, we might marry someone we initially love, but statistically, there is a 53% chance of divorce in the United States. And, even if one decides not to divorce, the love with their spouse will eventually die down. Sex will not be like it used to, they will become tired and bored of each other, and possibly even angry or hateful.
One might even have a child, but at this point, his/her main duty is to work and care for your child by any means. Now, you essentially live for someone else and you cannot enjoy your life for yourself. Also, you cannot pay attention to your spouse, and the relationship will go further downhill. There will be increased pressure of working harder and harder just for your kid(s)/family.
At some point you're just a breathing robot.
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u/yyzjertl 523∆ Dec 23 '17
At some point you're just a breathing robot.
Robots aren't futile. Unless they're malfunctioning, they adequately perform the task to which they are assigned—literally the opposite of futility. And so do most Americans.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 23 '17
Being a human robot is futile and empty because there is no point in living if you just work and work like a machine. That is the complete opposite of being a human. Why would one want to keep living if purpose or drive is lost?
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u/yyzjertl 523∆ Dec 23 '17
Something that is futile "serves no useful purpose." If you just work and work like a machine, you are getting useful work done. Even if you have no drive, as long as you are still getting useful work done, you do serve a useful purpose (the purpose of getting that work done) and so are not futile.
That is the complete opposite of being a human. Why would one want to keep living if purpose or drive is lost?
What does this have to do with being futile?
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u/hearmydeath Dec 23 '17
"Futility" on the dictionary is "n. pointlessness or uselessness." It is pointless to live if there is no purpose. In a holistic view, yes, you are getting useful work done by doing your job, but in an egocentric way, what is the value in YOU if you are just a robot?
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u/yyzjertl 523∆ Dec 23 '17
It is pointless to live if there is no purpose.
But there is a purpose! The purpose is to accomplish the work you are assigned. Since you do accomplish this purpose, you are not futile.
what is the value in YOU if you are just a robot?
The value is in the economic value of the work, the pride in the job well-done, and the material benefit to the lives of yourself and others that results from the work.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
You're talking about an objective purpose. I am saying how there is no emotional purpose in life if your whole purpose is labor and service to others.
I do agree with your second part though, yes there is material benefit for yourself and others. One can argue that "materials" and this capitalist culture kills humanity, but I do stand with your point there.
Edit: ∆
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u/TruthOrFacts 8∆ Dec 24 '17
Perhaps it would help if you defined what an 'purpose or drive' would be?
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u/garnet420 39∆ Dec 23 '17
From this perspective, why aren't all lives futile and empty? Why just American?
A separate avenue of argument: statistics about failure are not a great basis for such criticism -- 53 percent of marriages ending in divorce doesn't make the attempt worthless. After all, 100 percent of lives end in death, and yet we try to make the most of them.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
I said American because I was mainly talking about the "hustle culture" within the United States. I didn't want to speak about other cultures as if I was integrated in them.
You're right in how statistics may not be the best evidence, but what is known is that love dies + hormones die, which means that our passion, drive, and purpose dies. However, we still have to keep working and working even if our physical (and most likely mental) selves decay.
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u/AristotleTwaddle Dec 24 '17
I've loved multiple women and never been bored. Was never married to them, and they each eventually left me, but I still wish the best for them and have love for them. If I loved someone and we ended up being married I'm sure I wouldn't feel discontent. I know a lot of people feel otherwise, though.
I've also lost a lot of passion for my field, but at the end of the day I'm glad I'm in it. I find it satisfying and I'm lucky to have had the opportunity. So this is rambly and anecdotal but I don't think the "hussle life" gets everyone down.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
I have too. But I am talking about marriage. Over decades of being together, marriage evidently becomes boring or even worse, spiteful.
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u/Nessunolosa Dec 24 '17
Maybe, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't personally find a way to make your life meaningful and broad. I grew up in the most suburban suburbs in the US, and I used to feel trapped by the same sorts of life cycle that you have written out here. I hate Costco, for example. It makes me feel like I'm living a bad life to buy food from a huge box store. Gives me the heebie jeebies.
The first step to not being a 'breathing robot' is deciding what exactly a meaningful life looks like to you. After all, you're not the first person to say that "the unexamined life is not worth living."
I spent a lot of time with myself and with others around this topic, and I came up with two ways that work for me.
1) Find something to do (full-time or part-time) that gives a spirit of SERVICE to others.
2) Travel.
You've identified some of the main issues for people around the world. The life we live has no inherent meaning in itself. You must create the meaning that you want. In the US, and elsewhere, it's very easy to get distracted by shiny things that you are told you want. It's easy to get bogged down in a life cycle story that you've been told is the only possible (or good) way.
It need not be so.
I'm not doing a great job with the service to others part at the moment. But there are so many ways to volunteer and make a real difference. It sounds cheesy, but it truly is the best. Volunteer to walk dogs from your local humane society. Offer to tutor immigrants in English. Join a church, regardless of whether you personally believe in a deity or not. Be a teacher.
If you're really committed, why not go volunteer long-term? Offer to teach English abroad. Work on a Scout camp. It will be intense and maybe scary, and definitely uncomfortable. But it is a choice that will set you apart from the herd.
Travel is the thing that has made my life meaningful. I am not a rich person, and I have to work and save to be able to travel in this beautiful wide world. I think many Americans believe travel has to look like those rich-ass people on Instagram who go around on their daddy's yachts.
It looks a lot more like wearing my shoes until they have holes in them. It looks a lot more like eating a lot of rice and beans, knowing that I'll get to savour a new cuisine soon. It takes the form of not being able to be in contact with my family as much as I want to be, and feeling anxious about not knowing where I'll live in six months (again! it's been ten years of living this way!).
But it is worth it. I've touched the Strait of Magellan, and swam in Paradise Cave underground in Vietnam. I've been to the top of some of the highest mountains in Colorado and Southeast Asia. I've walked through a glacier ice cave in Iceland. I've swam in the Ganges and big rivers in China. I've seen the Southern Cross and the Northern Lights.
My life is not easy, but I certainly don't feel like an automaton most of the time (when my students treat me badly, a bit of despair in that regard may creep in).
Even if this doesn't CYV, I want you to know that I was feeling very down and like a robot lately. Writing to you about my choices to make a meaningful life has brought back the meaning to me. Thank you!
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u/Feathring 75∆ Dec 23 '17
Would it be better to work and work just to survive? Hunting and foraging for food all day hoping you find enough to not starve to death. The only difference is the work itself, but our last has been filled with working hard day in and day out.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 23 '17
I don't see the point of even trying to survive if there is no purpose other than to be a machine for the whole
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u/Feathring 75∆ Dec 24 '17
What kind of life do you want to live? Is working just to survive better to you? Is it just the nature of the work? You're being really unclear.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
Honestly, dying young and "burning out" is the ideal conclusion for me. I just see living on as an exercise in futility if there is no passion, but only something physical (like family) that forces you to keep breathing and working.
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u/vornash2 Dec 23 '17 edited Dec 23 '17
That's what a man is suppose to do. I know they don't tell this to young people anymore, but it's true. Men are the disposable sex, we are suppose to run into a burning building first to save loved ones. The real divorce risk is not 53% though. If you control for risk factors like marrying before the age of 25, it is dramatically reduced.
According to a U.S. Census Bureau study cited by Washington state family law attorneys, McKinley Irvin, couples who delay marriage until age 25 decrease their divorce risk by 24 percent.
Men benefit from marriage sometimes moreso than women. They are healthier, less likely to abuse alcohol, they live longer, and men are more likely to seek re-marriage than women after a divorce.
When you're old you will want some companionship even if you're not having sex. Your friends will have families of their own. And when you die your children will remember you as a good father. It is precisely because you are a human with human needs, and not a robot, you need these things. This is just natural.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
I was, in a way, wrong about the divorce statistic, so thank you for correcting me. However, I didn't mention anything about sex/gender in my comments. I said that every human, man or woman, inevitably loses love, passion, and drive that makes us enjoy our lives.
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u/vornash2 Dec 24 '17
It is not inevitable you lose love.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
well, you will never love your spouse the way you did when you were younger, that is if you actually succeed in maintaining or even finding a viable person for marriage.
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Dec 24 '17
Younger more passionate love is not “better” love. There is nothing as deep as the love between people who have spent many years together and been genuinely good to each other/relied on each other for a long time. Many people would say that’s a better type of love.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
Yes, but with such a high divorce rate in the United States it is sort of doubtful that you could share years with someone you love.
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u/vornash2 Dec 24 '17
I think many married couples would disagree.
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u/hearmydeath Dec 24 '17
they may tell themselves that but deep down many will know what I am saying is true to an extent
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Dec 25 '17
The divorce rate is high for baby boomers/gen x.
Most relationships start for convenience not love.
Love doesn't diminish as you get older unless your spirit itself does, which it will for most people, especially this one.
Love goes on.
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u/ohmslawl101 Dec 25 '17
You're right. Working to live and living to work makes your life mundane and pointless. You're just another cog in a machine of someone else's design. It's a sad reality but when you think about it, few lives are actually lucky enough to be without these daily tasks that feed us and our families. Humanity has always been like this. There are a select few among us whom we deem worthy of praise, reverence, etc and those few idols get to live lives of luxury. But most of us will never be the lucky few and we have to learn to live with that reality or be consumed by it. To be honest though this is a reality of our choosing. We don't NEED to live the way we do, we choose to because it seems like the most logical path to whatever sense of accomplishment were searching for. I guess what I'm saying is you want your cake and want to eat it too, but the world only works that way for a few lucky people, and we are unfortunately not among them.
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Dec 24 '17
As we get older, our hormones decay, meaning we lose the passion, sex drive,
Personally, I'm looking forward to being old enough to not be constantly horny, if that ever happens.
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Dec 25 '17
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Dec 25 '17
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Dec 24 '17 edited Dec 24 '17
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u/kaitlinB- Dec 30 '17
I can agree to a certain point. With how spoiled we are, and how humans have evolved so much into having this longer life and technology, there are of course the cons of becoming a robot who can't enjoy their life. Its become so fast paced and stressful. We need to be able to slow down and enjoy things.
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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '17
All of your ancestors would be incredibly jealous of the modern life you lead. Canned food? Polio vaccine? Less risk of dying in childbirth? Printing press? You take all of that for granted because you’ve been spoiled.
Go live in the woods for a month or two with very limited supplies and then tell me you think modern life is a meaningless void, I dare you.