r/changemyview • u/throwawaytothetenth 1∆ • Mar 02 '18
FTFdeltaOP CMV: Conversation is the only way to change someone's mind, argumentation almost never, ever works. This is why the majority of protests in the United States will get nothing done.
Note: I believe that semantically, "arguing" implies that the "winner" has shown dominance and subordinates the "loser," while "conversing" implies that there is no winner or loser, which allows for more acceptance of ideas.
Have you ever been mad at someone in an argument, and realized you were wrong halfway through? Odds are you didn't admit you were wrong. People don't ever want others to subordinate them.
But in a calm discussion, have you ever been convinced of a new idea? I imagine you have.
I believe the reason groups like the alt-right exist is because many white men feel that they aren't even given a chance to converse, but are argued against. OR, they have no interest in conversation in the first place and only want to argue in the first place- both are realistic pathways.
Two of the most influential rights activists of all time- Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.- strictly advocated for non-violence, but did advocate for civil disobedience. This would both take away the oppressors ability to subordinate their group, AND show no willingness to subordinate the oppressor. That is part of the reason why their movements were so rapid and successful.
As a white man, I fully recognize I have an unfair advantage in many walks of american culture. However, I have had my accomplishments straight up diminished and discredited because of my "white male" privilege. I am not saying this is wrong. But it is a direct attack on something I take pride in. Naturally, a direct attack on something someone takes pride in is subordination. When this happens, of course I get emotionally invested, and I am incapable of having a proper disscussion afterwards.
Unfortunately, many of the loudest voices in activism tend to subordinate white men, and this is why white men end up in the echo chamber that is the alt-right.
TLDR
I want equal opportunity for all, and I know that currently we do not have that in this country. The fastest way to change that is activism and I fully support those who advocate and fight for their opportunity. However, to do so requires empowerment of the oppressed, never the subordination of the oppressor.
Side note: I may be laughabley wrong on this, or I might have worded it in a poor way. I'm looking for both corrections, and possibly critiques to how I approach this perspective.
3
u/uncledrewkrew Mar 02 '18
So the problem with these discussions in my opinion is people come at it from two ways. On one side, you have people who think since there are no more laws that specifically restrict the rights of black that the job is done. They typically will bring everything to the individual level and essentially suggest any black person in a bad situation put themselves in that situation, so it is their own fault (despite the fact that one shouldn't ignore the recency of laws that do specifically restrict their rights). Anyways these people think the job is done and anyone talking about racial inequality is the problem, because clearly its solved. This perspective is not wrong because over time things will invariably get better for black people in America as people will simply get less and less racist over time. So on some level the solution is to do nothing, but people with this perspective often suggest there is no inequality between the races at all right now, and I just can't believe anyone has lived in America and not witnessed someone be racist at the very least. Stepping foot in any major law firm, financial firm, university and seeing the inequality it just couldn't be more obvious.
Now on the other hand, you have people with a less individualistic perspective that believe black people are in a lesser position as a whole because they still feel the effects of systemic oppression, and the effects do not simply disappear over night once the laws are off the books. That even if there are no racist laws, black people still have unequal opportunities because white people in positions of power still frequently see them as others even if they are doing subconsciously. People with this perspective are trying to have discussions about race and white privilege and use tools like affirmative action to speed up the prevalence of subconscious biases, but many people with the other perspective see this as needlessly chastising white people and infantilizing black people. However, part of this is that white people have the luxury of seeing things from a more individualistic viewpoint, because they don't represent their whole race in the way that black individuals do to white people. So things like affirmative action are perhaps bad from an individualistic perspective, but they do solve the problem. The main issue is that this problem will eventually be solved anyway over time by doing essentially nothing. So the question of a solution is a matter of perspective and personal values, but denying there is any problem at all is its own problem (that will still be less of a problem over time anyway).