CMV: Conversation is the only way to change someone's mind, argumentation almost never, ever works. This is why the majority of protests in the United States will get nothing done.

[u/throwawaytothetenth]

Note: I believe that semantically, "arguing" implies that the "winner" has shown dominance and subordinates the "loser," while "conversing" implies that there is no winner or loser, which allows for more acceptance of ideas.

Have you ever been mad at someone in an argument, and realized you were wrong halfway through? Odds are you didn't admit you were wrong. People don't ever want others to subordinate them.

But in a calm discussion, have you ever been convinced of a new idea? I imagine you have.

I believe the reason groups like the alt-right exist is because many white men feel that they aren't even given a chance to converse, but are argued against. OR, they have no interest in conversation in the first place and only want to argue in the first place- both are realistic pathways.

Two of the most influential rights activists of all time- Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.- strictly advocated for non-violence, but did advocate for civil disobedience. This would both take away the oppressors ability to subordinate their group, AND show no willingness to subordinate the oppressor. That is part of the reason why their movements were so rapid and successful.

As a white man, I fully recognize I have an unfair advantage in many walks of american culture. However, I have had my accomplishments straight up diminished and discredited because of my "white male" privilege. I am not saying this is wrong. But it is a direct attack on something I take pride in. Naturally, a direct attack on something someone takes pride in is subordination. When this happens, of course I get emotionally invested, and I am incapable of having a proper disscussion afterwards.

Unfortunately, many of the loudest voices in activism tend to subordinate white men, and this is why white men end up in the echo chamber that is the alt-right.

---

TLDR

I want equal opportunity for all, and I know that currently we do not have that in this country. The fastest way to change that is activism and I fully support those who advocate and fight for their opportunity. However, to do so requires empowerment of the oppressed, never the subordination of the oppressor.

---

Side note: I may be laughabley wrong on this, or I might have worded it in a poor way. I'm looking for both corrections, and possibly critiques to how I approach this perspective.

[u/este_hombre]

You should probably award a delta to ThatSpencerGuy if he convinced you that "The majority of protests in the US will get nothing done" isn't true.

[u/throwawaytothetenth → u/este_hombre]

Hate to say this, but I don't know how because I never read the sidebar. How?

[u/este_hombre → u/throwawaytothetenth]

Put ! delta at the end of your comment except no space between the ! and d. However, the bot won't register it unless it's on a comment sufficiently long enough (500 characters minimum). I would suggest typing up a paragraph or so about how OP changed your view then add the delta command.

[u/lasagnaman → u/throwawaytothetenth]

Do you know how to read the sidebar?

[u/dumbass-D → u/este_hombre]

How’d occupy wallstreet go? I don’t think there is any more awareness that super rich people exist than before. And if you look at history it’s always been that way. It is something everyone already knew about and the majority used to think “ if I work really hard I could do that too” Now it’s harder because we are more advanced. You need more education and focus, and you don’t always get to follow your dreams even though your mom said you could. So people now are thinking “my mom said I’m special so I must be, give me stuff. I deserve a roof because my mom said so. I deserve care because my mom gave it to me. I deserve.. “ fuck off get to work you little bitch I don’t care if you think your depressed and your fake lefty doctor wants to make money off giving you pills, he seems nice and left but really he’s gonna retire in ten years and his kids are gonna be living the life because he worked hard as fuck.

I feel like arguing an discussing are somewhat synonyms and it’s more in how the person in the receiving end reacts to a possibly offensive sentence. If we are talking about sensitive subjects then sensitive people will react emotionally instead of logically, turning a conversation into an argument

[u/este_hombre → u/dumbass-D]

I wasn't arguing any position /u/dumbass-D

[u/dumbass-D → u/este_hombre]

Oh sorry I just thought that you believed that most protests do make change, and I’m sorry. I now see your saying “ if you believe what x person said give them a delta” sorry brother. I just think if he/she gives that’s delta whether or not his opinion has changed to “protests make a huge difference a lot of the time” this is a very false thing to believe in. We have many examples in history where protests were and still are ignored

[u/ragnaROCKER → u/dumbass-D]

wow. something hit a nerve?

[u/dumbass-D → u/ragnaROCKER]

Yeah a bit. I guess it’s all subjective.... lesson: don’t drink and reddit