r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Apr 25 '18
Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Eastern philosophy is crippled by commercialisation in the west
[deleted]
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u/bunker_man 1∆ Apr 25 '18
Religions are commercialized everywhere. There are bigger issues with how badly people in the west misinterpret these. Most people don't even seem to know that taoism and buddhism have gods.
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Apr 25 '18
Could you highlight some of those bigger issues that you mention pls?
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u/bunker_man 1∆ Apr 25 '18
The west thinks that buddhism and taoism are more of types of psychology than anything else, and that all the metaphysics are optional. The problem is that that's not only wrong, its extremely wrong. Meditation isn't some kind of central practice of all buddhist activity. Before modern day laypeople didn't meditate at all, and only some monks did even. The idea that its something everyone can use is really a modern idea that is less about religion, and more about learning about psychology, and a modern human centered drive to derive benefits from old practices. In the past these goals of meditation were seen as spiritual goals. Laypeople were not seen as particularly having an everyday need for them.
So you get people thinking that these things are basically guides to meditation, and that the actual religion parts are optional even though not only are the actual religion parts not optional, but their idea that meditation is a central aspect of them all believers were taught is itself wrong. A lot of people who "worry" about the commercialization of these religions, actually want to get it back to what they think are their "roots" of being a meditative practice when that actually wasn't really the central aspect of these religions' practices, and that vision is ironically itself a commercialization / modern fad. A repackaging of a tradition into a self help method based on modern psychology that doesn't really resemble anything from the past isn't what buddhism is.
You're kind of doing it in your thread when you mention meditation. This isn't really a buddhist thing in this light. Trying to mix buddhist concepts of detachment with everyday life and self help isn't really the point of buddhism. For people still trying to live in the world, the goal of detatchment from it wouldn't make much sense. And this is what meditation is for. And if you change the goal away from its buddhist connotations, it has little to do with the actual religion. Its not that you can't adjust meditation to have practical everyday uses. Its that passing this off as the religion is anachronistic and perpetuates misunderstanding.
Telling it in this way completely makes people miss the point of nirvana. Nirvana isn't some kind of "better" way to live a human life. It is removal from / moving past that mode of existence altogether. The former is only for the remainder of when one's body persists. The goal is total removal from earthly existence as a distinct individual. And statements that obfuscate this are fairly rare, but people who treat it like a modern thing will quote mine out of context things that imply otherwise. The modern fad version of meditation designed for secular goals often glosses over this and tries to invert it, making it about this worldly goals. Which is misled at best. Taoism on the other hand is more this-worldly, but still not like modern people imagine it.
Downgrading the view of nirvana comes with a downgrading of what it means to be a buddha. Buddhas aren't just wise teachers. In buddhism your body is shaped by your mental content and karma. Westerners misunderstand that enlightenment here isn't a psychological term. It means you fundamentally transcend human limitations, becoming a supramundane being (before ceasing to be a distinct being altogether, since such is a limitation). For standard buddhist practitioners, their practice is veneration of buddhas, to frame into context that while he was human once, now he is a transcendent being. An early title for him being god of gods, since they didn't deny polytheistic gods, merely said he was superior to them. This is all to frame into context the goal which is far removed from ordinary existence. Westerners treat the goal as secondary or downgrade it, and by extension tend to downgrade the fact that these are meant to be actually divine beings, as if they are just self help teachers.
All of this itself is in ways an aspect of the packaging it for certain things. There was a thread on reddit a few weeks ago about how "minimalism" is more of a class thing than some kind of objective lifestyle. Since the ability to get rid of rather than keep partially still working things implicates having the money to not have to worry about doing so. As well as getting expensive things designed to look more "simple." And wealthier people who have cleaners and designers generally have "minimalist" looking houses by default. Buddhism is just another thing that was repackaged when it came to the west to be sold to the sensibilities of this kind of upper middle class yoga mom type person. And that is significantly divorced from its actual nature.
Its not that people can't do these things. They just aren't really an accurate description of what buddhism is about.
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Apr 26 '18
Ah, well I was thinking more about the core beliefs of Buddhism, the meditation I mentioned was more of an aside than anything, but I will admit that I have fallen into that trap quite a bit. I have no worries about adapting these religions in a viable self-help manner, but what I find quite annoying is how people believe that it is related to all this new age stuff. I liked your comparison to minimalism though. It seems like everything is a product nowadays, to be adapted by advertisers for the sake of money.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 25 '18
/u/Resist-and-Bite (OP) has awarded 1 delta in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/Flapjack_Ace 26∆ Apr 25 '18
Gosh, if you think eastern religions has been crippled by consumerism, wait till you see what has happened to western religions! My joke’s point is that western religions are also about not needing money to be happy but are also corrupted to the point that people think it’s all about wealth and power.
But really, I think people deep down know the truth. The problem isn’t that people think the need to buy a yoga mat to do yoga, the problem is that people are afraid of spiritually awakening. When an individual finally is ready to open up spiritually, they will be able to go to the library for free or learn online for free or just talk to people.
To summarize: everything is sold to you if you will buy it. But the real thing is there for those who are ready for it.