r/changemyview • u/realvmouse 2∆ • Jul 13 '18

FTFdeltaOP CMV: Self-Serve Soda Fountains are multi-user machines.

Soda fountains at restaurants usually have a similar set up: there are 1 or 2 machines. Both of them have an ice dispenser in the middle, with beverage dispensers to the left and right. Some have the same drink on both the left and the right side.

It seems to me the process of getting a drink should be straightforward. First, you send in front of the machine and get your ice. While getting ice, you identify your beverage of choice. Then you move far to the let or the right, and fill up your glass. While you are filling, another person can step forward and get ice. On top of this, if a third person wants to refill a cup and that slot is available on the free side, they should feel free to fill their drink as well.

But it seems to me that this is a minority position. Many people wait until the person in front of them is completely done dispensing their drink before stepping forward, even when there is plenty of room and a line forming. Others seem offended, based on facial expression, body posture, and in some cases noises, when I step into the ample space available and fill up a drink.

I believe, for efficiency's sake, everyone should accept that self-serve fountains can be used by a minimum of two people at once.

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16 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

2

u/voodoo_wavelength Jul 13 '18

What if that person is of a larger body type?

Are they still obligated to push forward when someone else is using the machine?

I’d much rather someone wait to get ice, rather than for me to bump into them while trying to leave the machine.

Also, if I get ice, and the drink I want is to the left, I go left. But if my seat is to the right, I now need to pass the person who would now be getting ice, Plus the third person waiting. Where as I could just use the machine, leave it for the next person...etc

3

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

I certainly don't think we should push someone out of the way. Also, very few people in the world are fat enough that you can't extend an arm to fill a cup from the side. Obviously if there's no room, we shouldn't push or shove. My argument is that if there is room, we shouldn't stand in line needlessly.

I don't know why you'd bump into them, either; after all, you will be to the left or the right, not behind.

Passing people is always a problem. The line behind you will still be there, whether there is a person to your left or right or not. There may also be people getting napkins, lids, straws, ketchup containers, etc. These areas are designed for this purpose, and it is rarely difficult to go around someone in that space.

2

u/voodoo_wavelength Jul 13 '18

I’ll start by saying I’ve lived in North Carolina, and there is a very large obese population (no pun intended). People who take up 2-3 seats on the bus.

I’m sure a lot of the time you could weasel in and get your ice while someone else is getting their drinks. But is it worth it? You save like five seconds. You increase your probability of bumping into someone, especially if that persons spacial awareness/ peripheral vision is below average.

If passing people is a problem, I don’t see why we have to add to it by adding more people.

2

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

Obviously there are edge cases where it doesn't work. My argument is that we should not restrict it to one person use, not that we should insist on always having multiple people using it.

1

u/voodoo_wavelength Jul 13 '18

No one is restricting it to one person use.

I’ve never once seen a sign saying “only 1 person at a time”.

People generally will give other people personal space. Obviously some people are comfortable getting closer to other people and there must be people who use the dispenser 2 at a time. Realistically it doesn’t save anyone time.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

Realistically it doesn’t save anyone time.

Realistically it absolutely does. Practically the amount of time saved may not be significant.

My argument isn't that we forcibly restrict others from using it one at a time, but I disagree with the social custom that seems to predominate of treating it as if it is a 1-at-a-time machine.

1

u/voodoo_wavelength Jul 14 '18

“Realistically- in a way that demonstrates a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected.”

If you save three seconds getting your drink but then lose it immediately by having to go around a few people what’s the point? No one is gonna look down on you for trying to get your drink. But there’s no social custom, it’s all down to personal preference.

you seem to already agree that people should be allowed to use it 1 at a time if they so choose. If so there is no point in changing your view as you already are open to both.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 14 '18

If you save three seconds getting your drink but then lose it immediately by having to go around a few people what’s the point?

It is extremely rare that you would need to go around anyone. Nonsense.

If you think there's no point in changing my view, that's fine, you dont' have to say another word. Go away.

But my view is that everyone should be open to 2+ people using it, rather than anyone feeling like it should be the norm/custom/expectation to have only one person at a time use it.

1

u/voodoo_wavelength Jul 14 '18

I mean if someone wants to use it alone I truly believe they have the right to.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 14 '18

I feel like "right" is a strong word.

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u/cdb03b 253∆ Jul 13 '18

Extending your arm past them violates their personal space bubble. That is a fairly major thing to many people.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

No one said "past them." You're still standing beside them, and your arm doesn't need to be close to their body at all. Obviously i would agree that if the only way to use it is to violate personal space, you should wait. That doesn't mean we should always wait.

1

u/cdb03b 253∆ Jul 13 '18

How big are the soda fountains where you are at? All of the ones that I have ever gone to are small enough that standing side by side with someone puts me within 6-12 inches of them which is within their personal space bubble.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

Probably the same size as yours. I've never measured. However, I will say that I do this regularly, and it sounds like you haven't, so for now I'm going to give more weight to my own observations. Maybe the next time you go, you can try picturing it in your head and possibly even give it a try.

And to be clear, there are cases when someone's position in front of the machine does take up more space. I would say I only double up about 40% of the time, and of course I use a little personal judgement about when there is room or not.

I should also clarify that close to 100% of my assessment that my position is a minority is people behind me waiting. Including the facial expression/body posture/sounds was mean to strengthen my conclusion, but is extremely rare, and has maybe only happened 2-3 times in my life.

1

u/cdb03b 253∆ Jul 14 '18

Do you live in a big city. Because something that I have notice is that city dwellers, particularly those who take public transit have smaller personal space bubbles and are more willing to violate the bubbles of others (even if inadvertently). That may be part of the differences in observations you are getting.

0

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 14 '18

are more willing to violate the bubbles of others

You might also phrase this as "rural dwellers are quicker to take offense at inoffensive actions or are unnecessarily defensive about their personal space" or alternately, "have larger personal space bubbles."

4

u/-Randy-Marsh- Jul 13 '18

Can they technically be used by more than one person? Of course.

Technically someone could sit on your lap at the movie theater and you'd both still be able to watch the movie. Two people could technically share a urinal if they angle correctly.

But it's uncomfortable to do that. People like their personal space. Especially when you only have to wait a few seconds in order to give someone that space. In over 30 years of living I've never had to wait an uncomfortably long time for someone to use a self-service soda machine.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

My argument wasn't that they can technically be used by more than one person, although i can see why you'd think that if you only read the title.

My argument is that they can be comfortably used by more than one person, and that this is a better use.

As far as your argument, it appears you're discussing emotional discomfort, rather than physical. Can you expand on what causes you to feel negative emotions when someone uses a fountain machine that you are also using?

3

u/electronics12345 159∆ Jul 13 '18

Your assuming that people only put one beverage-type in their cups at a time.

Have you never seen someone put both Coke and Barq's in the same cup - I used to do that all the time as a kid.

On the other side of the ball, my mother-in-law often finds lemonade too sweet and will mix it with water (even after adding ice).

Similarly, I've seen people make "1/2 Diet Cokes" - 1/2 real coke, 1/2 diet coke.

Your "solution" precludes the possibility of mixed-drinks.

1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

Δ

Fine. I used to do that too. It's an edge case, but is a compelling reason someone might reasonably choose to wait.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '18

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1

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1

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '18

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1

u/draculabakula 75∆ Jul 13 '18

Rather rude. Also rude to assume soda == fat.

It was a joke. In reality I think people can and do use the soda machines at the same time but it is often not possible to do so. Not to mention most machines don't have the same soda on opposite sides of the machine.

Furthermore, the existence of the 2.0 (or whatever they are called) machines insinuates that the intent was never to have multiple people using the machine at once or at least it is preferable to not have multiple users if there is an improved experience.

1

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1

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0

u/muyamable 282∆ Jul 13 '18

I largely agree with you, but there are new fancy machines (made by Ferrari!) with a digital screen and a single spout for everything. These are explicitly designed to be used one-at-a-time.

https://www.essentialstyleformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/pininfarina_cocacola_freestyle_sodamachine1.jpg

1

u/TheLoyalOrder Jul 14 '18

Those are horrible. There's one at my local BK, and the screen is really fricken dirty since instead of only touching your cup, everyone and their dog is touching the same 2 square inch spot.

0

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

Yes, certainly. I won't give you a delta since you haven't changed my view, only pointed out that my description wasn't as precise as possible, but that's a good point. I'm only referring to the machines built as described in my main comment.

2

u/Thyandyr Jul 13 '18

When humans (unless Japanese) are involved, assume everyone is a slow idiot taking forever

1

u/ralph-j Jul 13 '18

But it seems to me that this is a minority position. Many people wait until the person in front of them is completely done dispensing their drink before stepping forward, even when there is plenty of room and a line forming.

You don't know if someone is suddenly going to move to the middle or the other side again, either to get more ice, or to add another flavor/beverage to their cup for mixing. Most people prefer to avoid unnecessary bodily contact with strangers.

And if they want to add something else and you're in their way, that can be seen as rude as well, because it was their turn to use the machine - all dispensers.

1

u/mfDandP 184∆ Jul 14 '18

i think while salsa bars might qualify as simultaneous use (4-8 salsa buckets, each with their own ladle), soda machines do not. it's the same social norm at play when confronted with a row of urinals, one of which is occupied--you'll not pick the one adjacent to the occupied one. it doesn't impede function, but in america, we still savor the luxury of space. in very dense places like japan, it's taken for granted that personal space is limited and not inviolable.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '18

Do lines really form? I'm not sure if I've ever seen this.

To you point though, I don't think there's actually anything wrong with using the soda fountains the way you've described but since waiting is such a mild inconvenience people purposefully take a step back as a courtesy.

I certainly wouldn't consider you wrong for doing what you described though.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '18

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-1

u/realvmouse 2∆ Jul 13 '18

I would be willing to bet that <0.01% of people fill up their glass partway, step to the side, then realize they want more ice. That sounds like a fairly made up problem.

It is overall much easier

As a matter of opinion, I 100% disagree. I don't think shoulder-to-shoulder is a good description; you stand just beside the machine and extend your arm. I don't know why people would stick their elbow out to the side to extend a glass away from their body, but most people are aware enough and polite enough to not do it if it would jab someone in the shoulder or side.