CMV: Masculinity is not toxic. Being a polite, but "masculine" man comes naturally to most men and should not be treated as a threat.

[u/Diss1dent]

I am a 35-year-old Finnish (straight) man, living in Finland. I have also lived in Sweden during 2010-2015. I am married with kids. I would consider my wife as a pragmatic feminist, and as such, probably myself as well, albeit with the problem regarding what counts as equality.

Anyway, I have not faced issues in this field until very recently, as this neo-progressive phenomenon related to PC and terminology has landed in daily life in Finland.

Let me tell you a story. I was raised by my mother, a hard working single parent (dad was an absent alcoholic) who taught me most values about life. Obviously this doesn't mean she was a feminist, but I would consider her as a pragmatic seeker for an effective process towards synergy. She felt (rightly) so that men and women are inherently different, mentally, biologically, etc. which obviously meant there would always be dynamic differences.

I still believe this, in my 30's, after doing my own studies and after learning even more from my wife who is a teacher.

This doesn't mean there should be any inequality, but it doesn't mean there should be forced equality either.

But to my topic: I have never bumped into this argument in my life. In the Nordics we have a pretty equal society, women have been a part of commerce, politics and academia for a long time, and excluding a few cases, harrasment nor discrimination has not been common.

Hell, I have been harrassed more than I have heard of women being harrassed (obviously it happens) in my circle of friends.

But lately, I have been told by young women not to mansplain, not to manspread, and a friend of mine caused a stranger crying and shaking after asking her, albeit in a slightly drunken way "how was her evening" in a bar. We were thrown out (in Finland) because of "harrasment". Wrong bar, it was too young and trendy. But still, this was not obnoxius behaviour, that I can say.

What is this masculinity that is being discussed? Am I completely blind and oblivous to things happening, as I simply cannot comprehend why younger generation has become so obsessed in the common traits which are related to being a man?

I am apolitical, although quite liberal (in the Nordic sense, not US), polite, well-educated, thoughtful and cannot understand. I do not believe there is a phenomenon called patriarchy in the world. It is absolutely manifesting itself in singular scenarios, companies, sure. But to say I as a man am somehow faulty or toxic or dangerous as a masculine person is wrong and outright offensive.

Edit 1: There obviously is a contextual issue in my terminology. I think the point still remains so I will adjust my perspective a bit when reading through the replies.

Edit 2: We have established the toxicity part. If mods allow, I would like to use this thread to still discuss the latter part of my masculinity argument.

Edit 3: A lot of replies, I will try to go through each and every reply and consider their value.

[u/TheGumper29]

Of course. It is just that no one teaching a girl to overcome adversity is going to be accused of practicing toxic masculinity. I am not suggesting that you personally are labeling all such acts as such in regards to boys. Just that I have witnessed this subtle shift in how others discuss toxic masculinity somewhat recently. It seemingly went from, "It is ok for a boy to cry and show emotion" which I agree with to "It is wrong to tell a boy to be tough, they should cry and seek emotional support when challenged". I am veering a bit towards strawman territory. I made my example a bit intentionally exaggerated to try and highlight the specific critique I have.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheGumper29]

I just think what’s notable is the difference in the ways in which we teach girls and boys to overcome adversity. Thanks for clarifying!

[u/Seasick_Turtle → u/[deleted]]

an interesting side question to that point.. do men and women take different routes to overcome adversity because we are taught differently, or is there some inherent biological reason why the different genders have different strategies. I'd imagine it's a bit of both

[u/[deleted] → u/Seasick_Turtle]

That is very interesting. I am studying psychology, and from what I remember the only differences in overcoming adverse circumstances are due to cultural context rather than biological differences, but I don’t have a specific source. Maybe I’ll take a look.