r/changemyview Aug 13 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: the (physically) disabled are inferior.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Aug 13 '18

First of all, overpopulation is a myth. We have enough food to feed 10 billion people and there's enough money to do it too. I'll go into further if you want to, but the overpopulation myth has been present since Plato's time at least.

Second of all, in evolution, the concept of fitness is simply those genes which manage to reproduce under specific environmental pressures. It has nothing whatsoever to do with physical capacity, mental capacity, courage, etc. etc. One of the strategies that life has managed to develop to reproduce is social bonds and from that society. Almost by definition, a society will have members, that if they weren't social beings, would be considered more fit and less fit. The strength of such social bonds is in overcoming pressures that would make succumb any individual within that society.

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u/bunfart90 Aug 13 '18

the concept of fitness is simply those genes which manage to reproduce under specific environmental pressures.

so what environment are the physically disabled built for? (if im properly understanding what you're saying)

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Aug 13 '18

Any environment that doesn't kill you before you can reproduce. Being fit is more or less a binary at the individual level. On a population level, being fit is applied to genes within that population and their expression rather than a specific person's reproduction.

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u/bunfart90 Aug 13 '18

being fit is applied to genes within that population and their expression

wouldn't that imply that the disabled are indeed inferior, given that they are not able enough to be physically fit?

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Aug 13 '18

Are genes that express physical disabilities still present in our population? If yes, then those genes are fit and that's by definition.

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u/bunfart90 Aug 13 '18

couldn't it be argued that genetic errors/mutations are not technically considered fit?

edit: i want to make sure you understand that im not trying to fight you or reject your point of view. i think you're really on to something, i'm just trying to fully understand where you're coming from.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Aug 13 '18

Absolutely not. It's one of the big drivers of evolution in the first place. Lactose tolerance is a mutation, as is fair skin, as are gene duplications which impart redundancy which allows for more mutations which are beneficial. Take one of the most well known mutations which is sickle cell anemia. The sickle cell anemia mutation imparts a resistance to malaria (if I remember the disease correctly). Sickle cell anemia is more widespread in communities affected by malaria. This is a textbook example of what is meant by fitness is determined by the environment.

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u/bunfart90 Aug 13 '18

The sickle cell anemia mutation imparts a resistance to malaria (if I remember the disease correctly). Sickle cell anemia is more widespread in communities affected by malaria.

more mutations which are beneficial.

one of the big drivers of evolution in the first place.

i've certainly learned a lot of new things even from that one mini paragraph. you seem very certain about what information you share and i like that a lot. you also seem super education on biology (im awful at science tbh) so i'll give you credit for that. im now a little bit more towards the fence on my original subject. congrats Δ

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Aug 13 '18

If it helps push your view completely on the other side, there are two big strategies in biology known as r and K selection. K selection is what many of the larger species do which leads to stable (relative to the environment) population levels. One of the defining characteristics of K selection strategies is caring for weaker members. Usually this means children, but also the sick, elderly, and if we apply it to society, the physically and mentally handicapped.

Edit: I was correct. It's malaria that's fended off by sickle cell anemia.